Wednesday, December 17, 2014

The Appeal of a Life Without Hope


Dee Anne Moore - [shared meme]




Muhammad Rasheed - While Europe was plunged into the darkness between the collapse of "classic civilization" and the Italian Renaissance, the rest of the civilized world was fine and thriving.

John E. Zaphiriou - Technology may be our salvation; but, there will be a price to pay for it. Some humans, if not millions, will hope that their salvation will come for service to God. Nevertheless, it is hard to live meaningful lives as long has there are the super rich and the super poor on this planet. Materialist endeavors is a trap.

Muhammad Rasheed - Tech isn't a salvation, it just helps make our earthly existence easier. The poor will always be among us. Always.

John E. Zaphiriou - You may see the world and it's outcomes with a different lens than I.

Muhammad Rasheed - Everyone sees life differently, John. We're supposed to.

But the poor aren't going anywhere.

John E. Zaphiriou - No there is unity. Yes we are individuals with free will. But slaves are formed all the time.

Muhammad Rasheed - We can see life united in our humanity, but we all still see the journey differently. God made us different so we may learn from each other.

John E. Zaphiriou - As some once said God must love the poor for he made so many of them. Yet the poor can be the happiness people on earth.

John E. Zaphiriou - A journey is just a path. I can not speak for God.

Muhammad Rasheed - The poor are God's people. It's the believers' responsibility to be charitable to them.

John E. Zaphiriou - ... some travel in circles.

Muhammad Rasheed - lol I don't speak for God, I just recite what He told us.

John E. Zaphiriou - Charity, hope and love is the madra.

John E. Zaphiriou - reciting is memory work. Reflective thinking is more.

John E. Zaphiriou - Good night .. Friend.

Muhammad Rasheed - If your reflective thinking can't incorporate the Truth of the Lord within it, then what good is it?

Muhammad Rasheed - Have a good night, friend.

Dee Anne Moore - I think we are lab rats.

Muhammad Rasheed - You are.

Dee Anne Moore - So I've been told  :)

Muhammad Rasheed - lol

Dee Anne Moore - I do like cheese...as a vegetarian who still eats dairy... The rodent in me I guess!!

Muhammad Rasheed - You're not a rat! I was just teasing.

Dee Anne Moore - What if....just consider for a moment... that the universe is so much more complex and we are slowly unraveling it's mysteries... That all species are vying for the resources. But perhaps we have learned too late that the so called, 'web of life' is important to the well being of the whole and the individuals. That technology could have been able to confront the complexities of limited resources and the carrying capacity of the earth... But the natural inclination to be short-sighted and greedy has made it nearly impossible to utilize our evolved abilities to do so... opposible thumbs and developed frontal lobes... I would think that the old men of yore created gods to explain that which was not yet able to be explained. What if, per chance, that there had been a Jesus and he was an ordinary political activist and the groupies he had were trying to get the ear of the populace and created the stories about heaven and hell... that the bush Moses allegedly saw was a stone mason that carved some rules for him to take to the parttiers down below...that just as we grow to learn that santa was a lovely feel good idea to keep kids from being too out of control...that the stories that developed about the so called 'prophets' were simply that....just stories.. Would not their messages of love and caring for one another be less valuable without some promise of reward?

Muhammad Rasheed - Dee Anne Moore wrote: “What if....just consider for a moment... that the universe is so much more complex and we are slowly unraveling it's mysteries...”

I don’t have to “consider that for a moment.” It’s true. The universe is very complex, and we are only just now beginning to penetrate its mysteries.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “That all species are vying for the resources.”

Also true.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “But perhaps we have learned too late that the so called, 'web of life' is important to the well being of the whole and the individuals. That technology could have been able to confront the complexities of limited resources and the carrying capacity of the earth... But the natural inclination to be short-sighted and greedy has made it nearly impossible to utilize our evolved abilities to do so... opposible thumbs and developed frontal lobes...”

Too late for what?

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “I would think that the old men of yore created gods to explain that which was not yet able to be explained. “

Sure they did. That’s what paganism is about.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “What if, per chance, that there had been a Jesus and he was an ordinary political activist and the groupies he had were trying to get the ear of the populace and created the stories about heaven and hell... that the bush Moses allegedly saw was a stone mason that carved some rules for him to take to the parttiers down below...that just as we grow to learn that santa was a lovely feel good idea to keep kids from being too out of control...that the stories that developed about the so called 'prophets' were simply that....just stories.. Would not their messages of love and caring for one another be less valuable without some promise of reward?”

Are you asking me to embrace an existence in which the material universe was all there was? An existence in which there is no after life? A life in which there is no hope? Why would I deliberately wish to narrow my focus onto a fraction of our existence and pretend it was all there was to life? What value would there be in that? In what way would that profit me? In an existence stripped of everything that matters, where nothing was left except the material, and all abstract concepts were worthless vapors that would not profit me in any real sense… why would I want that? What are you trying to offer me?

Dee Anne Moore - Forty hours a week with benefits and two weeks off for vacation!! But really folks, The material world is incredibly wonderful...poetry, music, dance...love! The interaction with other beings ...The idea that we have to keep going after we have lived a life does not appeal to me... The reality that we stop being and become part of the earth...seems so more natural and easy to believe that imagining some ..something or someone that made rules about trivia like how to wear our hair or clothes or what days to eat certain foods... or picks and chooses who to kill or who to spare...These ideas seem to be (to me) human attributes...not 'supernatural' . So, I'm just okay with life being what we have and I'm okay without all the arbitrary rules. I often wonder about the disclaimers..."he works in mysterious ways"..when things don't pan out...or, strange descriptions of what might be waiting after we die in some far off galaxy...like in Star Wars... I'm just not a follower or believer of religions ...I do love humanity, the creatures of this earth...mysteries....the universe...silence...the beginnings of spring...the winds of autumn that portend the coming of winter... I love life... Plain, hold the mustard!

Muhammad Rasheed - Dee Anne Moore wrote: “Forty hours a week with benefits and two weeks off for vacation!!”

UGH!!! lol

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “But really folks, The material world is incredibly wonderful...poetry, music, dance...love! The interaction with other beings ...”

It IS wonderful. And it is only a mere fraction of the true existence waiting for us on the other side of it.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “The idea that we have to keep going after we have lived a life does not appeal to me...”

You lack insight.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “The reality that we stop being and become part of the earth...”

That’s a teeny-tiny aspect of our reality, confined only to the mere shell we inhabit. There is so much more.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “…seems so more natural and easy to believe…”

Yes, that’s the nature of the temptation. Narrow, confined thinking is often easy.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “…that imagining some ..something or someone that made rules about trivia like how to wear our hair or clothes or what days to eat certain foods... or picks and chooses who to kill or who to spare...These ideas seem to be (to me) human attributes...not 'supernatural' .”

Give me examples. Pretty much everything I know about those things ARE human rules. lol So let me get this straight… you complain about human-attributed trivial rules, but somehow believe they won’t exist in a purely human-run materialist existence?

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “So, I'm just okay with life being what we have and I'm okay without all the arbitrary rules.”

If God is only imaginary as you seem to believe, and the scriptures are only the product of mere men, then how is what you claim to want different from what you have? Humans are not going to stop being humans.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “I often wonder about the disclaimers..."he works in mysterious ways"..when things don't pan out...”

That’s what everyone wonders about when they lack scriptural insight.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “…or, strange descriptions of what might be waiting after we die in some far off galaxy...like in Star Wars...”

The strange descriptions aren’t describing anything in THIS universe.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “ I'm just not a follower or believer of religions ...I do love humanity, the creatures of this earth...mysteries...”

You’ve just demonstrated that you reject mystery in favor of materialist comfort and a mentality of intellectual ease.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “..the universe...silence...the beginnings of spring...the winds of autumn that portend the coming of winter... I love life... Plain, hold the mustard!”

So be it. Those who prefer this finite life of illusion over the mysteries of the afterlife will receive it as their reward. Congratulations, you’ve made it.

Dee Anne Moore - Muhammad, I just finished listening to NPR..the Diane Rhem Show. the guest was Simon xxxx (missed his last name) discuss a book that he finished re the history of the Jews. Toward the end of the program...there was the reminder that Israel was promised to the Jews and that being Jewish is a gift and Jews are the chosen people. I cannot imagine being a Palestinian and being told that the settlers are chosen to be on the land so the Palestinians must give up their homes... I am not fond of tribal mentality...
As far as me, rejecting mystery... I have no idea what happens after we die except that the body decomposes...I know this because our fellow beings on this planet do so. I do good because I choose to do good...not because I'm afraid of retribution....except for the rejection of other beings. I appreciate that some need to cling to a belief in a controlling being... I simply do not. Do I think there is some universal consciousness that we (all creatures) are part of..an energy field perhaps... I don't rule it out. But, a deity that exists in the pages of the Torah, Bible or the Koran ...among other expressions of unseen, invisible beings...I just can't go there.

Muhammad Rasheed - Dee Anne Moore wrote: "the guest was Simon xxxx"

That's nasty, Dee.

Dee Anne Moore - Schama... Had to look it up.

Muhammad Rasheed - Dee Anne Moore wrote: “Muhammad, I just finished listening to NPR..the Diane Rehm Show. the guest was Simon xxxx (missed his last name) discuss a book that he finished re the history of the Jews. Toward the end of the program...there was the reminder that Israel was promised to the Jews and that being Jewish is a gift and Jews are the chosen people.”

When Moses finally led the children of Israel to the River Jordan, before they crossed over into the Promised Land, God said that the promise to their patriarchs had been fulfilled. They were not the “chosen people” by blood any more. From then on the chosen people of God were whosoever recognized His message as true and worshiped Him.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “I cannot imagine being a Palestinian and being told that the settlers are chosen to be on the land so the Palestinians must give up their homes... I am not fond of tribal mentality...”

http://www.freewebs.com/jewsagainstzionism/

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “As far as me, rejecting mystery... I have no idea what happens after we die except that the body decomposes...I know this because our fellow beings on this planet do so.”

Is that you decomposing or just your body? Is the body the sum total of you? Does “consciousness” decompose? What is consciousness made of?

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “I do good because I choose to do good...not because I'm afraid of retribution....except for the rejection of other beings.”

Everyone has their varying reasons for doing what they do. Even the believers. For those believers who do good simply for the love of doing good, the message of God is called The Good News… all they have to do is keep the course and all will be well, whether they think about it or not. There are varying levels of reward in the afterlife, to match the varying levels of reasons people do what they do.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “I appreciate that some need to cling to a belief in a controlling being...”

Free Will. No one is being controlled. All are free to do or believe whatever they wish. That’s what Free Will is all about.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “I simply do not.”

That’s really a strawman since it’s not what the belief system is about, Dee.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: “Do I think there is some universal consciousness that we (all creatures) are part of..an energy field perhaps... I don't rule it out. But, a deity that exists in the pages of the Torah, Bible or the Koran ...among other expressions of unseen, invisible beings...I just can't go there.”

You are free to believe whatever you wish. *shrug* Of course in the end there will be consequences for whatever we decided to believe and do, but no one is suggesting that you’re supposed to be controlled because that isn’t the case.

Dee Anne Moore - Muhammad wrote: You are free to believe whatever you wish. *shrug* Of course in the end there will be consequences for whatever we decided to believe and do, but no one is suggesting that you’re supposed to be controlled because that isn’t the case

I find it curious that you speak of eternity, yet you state, "in the end"...As far as having "free will"... that, to me, is an example of a 'disclaimer' in order to give the deity a pass if little 'Johnny goes on a stealing spree.. Cannot you not see how difficult it is to think that there is an all powerful being that supposedly creates everything and makes some of it capable of doing harm to each other? Read "The Stranger" by Mark Twain....

Muhammad Rasheed - Dee Anne Moore wrote: "I find it curious that you speak of eternity, yet you state, 'in the end'"

At the end of this material life span, there will be Judgment. The Day of Accountability.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: "...As far as having "free will"... that, to me, is an example of a 'disclaimer' in order to give the deity a pass if little 'Johnny goes on a stealing spree.."

The conflict came from what you only thought the belief system represented, compared to what it actually says.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: "Cannot you not see how difficult it is to think that there is an all powerful being that supposedly creates everything and makes some of it capable of doing harm to each other?"

I have zero issue with wrapping my mind around the fundamental concepts of my faith. That's why I'm not the one of us promulgating atheism/agnosticism.

Dee Anne Moore wrote: "Read "The Stranger" by Mark Twain...."

Meh.

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