Violette L. Meier – [shared link] My Muslim friends: What do you think of this? Is this true?
Joel Whatley - Jesus isn't real. That Lie has been proven time and time again. But some people just need something to hold on too!
Violette L. Meier - Are you Muslim Joel Whatley?
Joel Whatley - We all were born Muslim sis! smile... I'm striving... I had lived a lie my whole life through Christianity. America can't lie to me anymore.
Violette L. Meier - So as a Muslim, you are saying the Koran lies? It says Jesus is real and to be respected?
Joel Whatley - The bible say's he is one way, but the pictures is nothing like him. So if you change a man looks, name, color, how is that the same man? I believe that the most high sent someone, but its not who they say he is. So yes its a lie! We can make a lie the truth!
Joel Whatley - We can't make a lie the truth!
Violette L. Meier - I think you and I are talking about two different things. I'm a Christian and have never ever beloved that Jesus was white and European looking nor do I believe his orginal name was Jesus. We agree on that standpoint.
Violette L. Meier - So you do think that Jesus (Yeshua/Joshua), is not real?
Joel Whatley - (Yeshua/Joshua) is real not jesus and I no that they teach us they are the same but that not true either.
Muhammad Rasheed - I addressed Mario's video in this Blog Post...
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - Jesus isn't a lie. Many people have been delivered from many things AND received the holy spirit through Jesus. So whatever the name may be.... Jesus is not a lie or else he would have no spiritual validity. The testimony of the multitudes can't lie.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - The Redeemer is The Christ is The Messiah is The Savior
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - and I only read parts of the Quran and didn't study it thoroughly so sorry for posting on your thread bless Allah! As salamu alaykum
Muhammad Rasheed - You can't bless Allah, Emily, He is the One who blesses us.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - we bless God when we send him praises and.... we are blessed. Bless you Muhammad Peace
Muhammad Rasheed - A blessing is the infusion of something with holiness, spiritual redemption, divine will, or one's hope or approval.
God is self-sufficient. We can't infuse Him with anything. lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Peace, Emily.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - But we can make him smile.
Violette L. Meier - I agree that Jesus is not God but I don't believe he was simply an ordinary messenger. He is the messiah.
Violette L. Meier - Psalm 34:1 ESV
I will bless the Lord at all times; his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Muhammad Rasheed - All the prophets were messiahs. It just means "anointed by God" as they all were. I wouldn't consider any of them "ordinary" either, but they were all of one special brotherhood, with a very important mission. The most important one of all.
Violette L. Meier - I know the definition of messiah. Thanks. And I agree that all prophets are annointed but it is my belief that Jesus was not simply a prophet
Muhammad Rasheed - God said otherwise.
Muhammad Rasheed - I believe God.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I believe if you know God you are loved by God and in that relationship all is fine. Jesus did have a special position that was different than the other prophets. One of my faves is Jon the Baptist . We have individual walks and I would never take away someone's salvation by saying Jesus isn't real, just as I would never say Allah is not the "real" God. Bless us all and we are truly brothers in God, despite the worldly debate behind religions that would divide instead of unify us in Love.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "Jesus did have a special position that was different than the other prophets."
Jesus' job was to instruct the children of Israel in scripture and wisdom, to preach the message of God, and to return on the Last Day to bear witness for/against those he personally preached to during his lifetime. This is the mission of the messengers of God; the same duties they all possess.
There is nothing the Christ was anointed to do that the rest of them weren't also anointed to do. Their job was to preach the message, and demonstrate to you how to do it. That's it.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - That's your point of view. There is much more to it than that in my point of view. But I do agree that he was called to do what we are called to do and gives a great example of that...
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "That's your point of view."
That's God's point-of-view. That's why I believe it. That's what God said about His messenger.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - My point of view is also God's point of view. because I have God in me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Then why does your point of view conflict with what God actually said?
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - Nothing wrong with either of our views my friend. What matters is The Spirit of God in our Lives.
Muhammad Rasheed - What matters is following the message of God, and not preferring our own vanities over Him.
Muhammad Rasheed - We can say that our point of view is the same as His, but when there is a clear conflict between the two, as in this case, then they both cannot be right. One is Truth, while the other is necessarily falsehood, and surely God speaketh the Truth.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - When you question another Man's faith it is an assault on his relationship with God. I am strong in spirit and can handle that. But you should be mindful of that in future conversations. I wont debate The Words of God with you but only encourage you in The Spirit.
The word kills but the spirit gives life.
We wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers.
As humans we have been guilty of keeping God in our religious boxes and texts. Obviously there are different versions written and people are led by FAITH this way or that. God does not have favoritism among man and we cannot deny man the LIFE God has given him and the spirit of God who has ministered to him all of his days.
We wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I didn't mean to quote that twice ...
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - But sentiment the same.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "When you question another Man's faith it is an assault on his relationship with God."
I'm not questioning your faith, I'm questioning your understanding of scripture. God is very definite on very specific items, and to ignore it in favor of what feels good to you while saying it is from God despite the clear conflict, is a problem. Do not endanger your soul.
Study to show your own self approved. Scripture is on earth as a mercy from the One who made you. Ignore it at your peril.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I do study and in doing so I have become more intuned with the holy spirit. Peril... endangered soul.... no, not at all. I can trust what feels good to me without conflict because I know God. Our mindsets are very different. Very.
Muhammad Rasheed - Then why does what you say conflict so often with what God actually said? Explain.
God is not the author of confusion, Emily.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - Praying, worship and being spirit led is more important to me than studying what other men think. Scriptures have taught me I have a direct line to god 100% of every day and he has shown me this as well. I am blessed.
Muhammad Rasheed - You think the scriptures are "what other men think" and are not the message from God?
Muhammad Rasheed - That explains much...
Muhammad Rasheed - Tell me: If you are not comparing what the spirit leads you towards with the message of God itself, then by what criterion do you determine where you are being led by the actual spirit, and towards the actual truth?
If you aren't using the message of God as your guide as it was intended by Him, then what ARE you using?
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - Yes the scriptures testify of God, but I put more authority in the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit and counselor that lives in our hearts.
God is not the author of confusion. I agree. I must confess I have felt confusion in the spirit before and in those cases I go to the spirit to find my peace and the confusion leaves me.
I do not speak of scriptures when I speak of "what other men think" I speak of interpretation of scripture and what YOU in particular are telling me. I will not turn to follow you, nor the next man who claims to know the truth. I will continue to walk in the spirit. I really don't understand what your coming down on me for. I don't get your accusations at all. But I will leave that alone. Have a blessed day. Please be done for now on this one..
Violette L. Meier - I don't believe the Qur'an is scripture nor do I believe it is God's word.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "I really don't understand what your coming down on me for. "
"I'm not 'coming down' on you, it's just a discussion.
Muhammad Rasheed - Violette L. Meier wrote: "I don't believe the Qur'an is scripture nor do I believe it is God's word."
What are you basing that believe on?
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I myself will not say that the Quran is not scripture or Gods word... I do think both Christianity and Muslim are very similar. If anyone has found God through either of these religions I am happy about that. I have heard that Christianity and Muslim have different Gods. I don't believe that either. I do think it is all the same God.
Muhammed said: its just a discussion
yes... a discussion where you say: at my peril and at my endangered soul...
To me this is a complete disregard for my beliefs and personal relationship with God.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - sorry I know that grammar is off, but I didn't know how to word it correctly
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "Yes the scriptures testify of God, but I put more authority in the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit and counselor that lives in our hearts."
We must master scripture -- really study it with the full force of our God-given intellect -- so that it is written on our hearts. That way it will guide us correctly in all things, so that when we are led by 'the spirit' we will have that guide to compare it to, and know that we are indeed on the right path.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "I must confess I have felt confusion in the spirit before and in those cases I go to the spirit to find my peace and the confusion leaves me."
Is the conflict truly resolved in those moments, or are you just encouraged not to think about it anymore?
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "I do not speak of scriptures when I speak of "what other men think" I speak of interpretation of scripture and what YOU in particular are telling me. I will not turn to follow you..."
lol I don't want you to follow me, just make sure you know what it is your Lord wants of you based on His Book -- that's why it's here. That way you will know for yourself and no man or spirit can lead you astray. That's what "study to know yourself approved" means.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - Is the conflict truly resolved in those moments, or are you just encouraged not to think about it anymore?
I am encouraged in my spirit to trust the Voice of God that is available to me, just as it was available to those I read about in the scripture. That is more valuable to me, and I put it ABOVE any written text period.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I do not need to grieve myself about the scripture when the word of god is already in my heart. The scripture is available to me and is interpreted by the spirit within me. It is not the scripture that interprets my spirit. To easily we can be led by MAN when we have that mindset.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "I myself will not say that the Quran is not scripture or Gods word... I do think both Christianity and Muslim are very similar. If anyone has found God through either of these religions I am happy about that. I have heard that Christianity and Muslim have different Gods. I don't believe that either. I do think it is all the same God."
There is only One God.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "Muhammed said: its just a discussion. yes... a discussion where you say: at my peril and at my endangered soul... To me this is a complete disregard for my beliefs and personal relationship with God."
You are a fellow believer, and when I see you on a path that I know is a dangerous one, I speak up to let you know so, because I do not wish to see you harmed. If I didn't care then I would say nothing.
To worship something other than the One God is the only unforgivable sin, so says the Lord of the worlds. Some people have decided to worship the Christ Jesus, son of Mary and this is a great blasphemy and an insult to the One who made both them and Jesus. Because of this, God took the time to explain His exact relationship with Jesus, so it would be clear. So when folk say other than what is true in this regard, it is a cause for concern, and it does imperil their very soul. Who would I be to withhold that info from you? Once told, it is not my place to MAKE you take it; this is not within my power. But let us agree that I did tell you that God said that Jesus was no more than a messenger, like the messengers who came before him, and the one who came after.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I worship God
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "To easily we can be led by MAN when we have that mindset."
That sounds like you are equating scripture with “written by man" again. We wouldn't know about God at all if He hadn't taken the initiative to tell us about Himself and His message for us.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: "I worship God"
And all praise are due to Him and Him alone. May He bless you and may you continue to know His Peace.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - //That sounds like you are equating scripture with 'written by man" again. We wouldn't know about God at all if He hadn't taken the initiative to tell us about Himself and His message for us.//
I think broader than just this. Scripture indeed was written by man. Men who had relationship to the holy spirit. I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit too. Because I am myself, I put that above what another man wrote.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “I think broader than just this. Scripture indeed was written by man.”
Scripture was revealed to man by God and scribed onto paper by man. Man is not the author of scripture.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “Men who had relationship to the holy spirit. I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit too. Because I am myself, I put that above what another man wrote.”
All believers have relationship with the spirit of the Lord. God anointed a particular group of believers to carry the canon of revealed scripture. None of us are among that group. The scripture are God’s precise instruction to us as to how we may prosper in this life and in the next. To uphold our own Fantasyland vanities above it is to be in grave error. Be careful.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - To disregard the spirit of god that lives in me would be a grave error. I will not live my life second guessing myself. That is exactly where so many religious folks get bound. We are taught to hear the voice of god but then when we start hearing it we get scared its out of alignment of the word. I no longer trip about the opinion of man. We all are on our own paths. The spirit deals with spirit.
I am not in agreement with you that only one group of people hear the word. God is everywhere present at the same time and has been so forever. He is not contained within just one text. Again: we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers in high places. This is about us, our life journey. The scriptures are EXAMPLES. WE are the LIFE.
Yes we do offer words of encouragement to one another when we are led in the spirit and I believe we both did our best with that today. Peace and blessings.
Muhammad Rasheed - Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “To disregard the spirit of god that lives in me would be a grave error.”
At no point did I say we should.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “I will not live my life second guessing myself.”
It would never be necessary if we took the Word of God to be true and let it guide both us and the spirit we are led by.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “That is exactly where so many religious folks get bound. We are taught to hear the voice of god but then when we start hearing it we get scared its out of alignment of the word. I no longer trip about the opinion of man. We all are on our own paths. The spirit deals with spirit.”
The point of scripture is to keep us on the Path of God. Studying it and knowing it will prevent us from being out of alignment in all areas. Recognize that we are influenced and tempted in many directions… including from the spirit realms… and it is for this reason that we compare ALL voices coming in to what God Himself said in His Word. Truth stands out clear from error, and the Word of God is the truth given us as a mercy from our Lord to keep us on the Path. Follow it and we will not go astray. Abandon it, or sit it on the back burner in favor of the other voices calling for our attention without shining the Word of God upon it to be sure of that voice’s authenticity is a great mistake.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “I am not in agreement with you that only one group of people hear the word.”
Upon what do you base the assurance of your stance? I stand upon the Word of God. What do you stand upon?
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “God is everywhere present at the same time and has been so forever. He is not contained within just one text.”
Your efforts to toss the scripture aside and downplay its mission in our lives does not change the fact that God gave it to us specifically to teach the human being of earth how to attain and maintain his walk upon the Path. That’s what it is for.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “Again: we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers in high places. This is about us, our life journey. The scriptures are EXAMPLES. WE are the LIFE.”
Do you think the One who made you doesn’t know your life? Do you think the Supreme Creator of everything you know wouldn’t know to put together the best guide for you to attain that which you didn’t even know you needed to attain? God is the One who gifted you your life, and in His mercy, He also provided the instructions as to how you can live it most abundantly. Will you not heed it?
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson wrote: “Yes we do offer words of encouragement to one another when we are led in the spirit and I believe we both did our best with that today. Peace and blessings.”
May the Peace & Blessings of God be upon you, Emily.
Dwayne Langley - I wouldn't even say "Muslims need to become Christian"
* I'd just say "Muslims need to AT LEAST read their own book!!!"
Violette L. Meier - I base my belief on my reading of it Muhammad Rasheed but I respect that you believe it. If those teachings make you a better man, be blessed in them. God has inspired many parts if the Quran so some of it I do regard as scripture but many parts of it I do not believe they are God but man. But as for me and my house we serve God and adhere to the gospel of Jesus the Christ. I find more peace and God's presence in my scriptures, the Bible.
Violette L. Meier - @Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson I agree with you 100%. The scripture is there to teach, correct, train in righteousness etc. All scripture is inspired by God but written by men. We must not worship the scripture and not the God that inspired it. God speaks to us all not just to those who wrote down their inspiration. God dwells within us and we must listen to the Holy spirit which guides us.
Violette L. Meier - God is never the cause of confusion.
Emily Fantasyland Hendrickson - I never understood when one believer feels the need to question the validity of anothers belief. They should be happy about that other persons relationship to the divine, not look for ways to falsify it. It happens a lot with religious people I have found. There is too much fear, self doubt and thoughts of unworthiness in religion. God does not want that for us. He wants us to know that we are OK and that all is fine! There is no reason to know God and be full of angst about our relationship with him. When we are full of angst, that is the confusion we should recognize. When we go to God, The Spirit WILL guide us and ALWAYS keep us on the right track if we are listening. If another BELIEVER happens to think that "voice" is the devil or another "spirit" because it wasn't written in the scripture, all I can do is bless them and let them go on their merry way. I do not understand the religious sometimes I swear. They spend a lot of time worrying about what other believers think and want to have authority over their mindsets. You will never be in proper alignment with God if other people are telling you what you need to believe. The most important thing is to Know God for yourself... Muhammad Rasheed, I just want to say that from the beginning of this conversation I told you that I knew God and for the entirety of the rest of it you were questioning my beliefs. I am not upset because I know that it is not uncommon. I have had conversations like this before, but I would like you to think about that. It is somewhat silly. I did not once devalue your walk with God, everything I had to say was in defense to your accusations that I do not believe in the "correct" way.
p.s. You will probably come back and say that you did not ever say that you accused me of not believing correctly, but your line of questioning does imply that you think there is something wrong with my way of thinking.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Violette and Emily…
Did you forget the topic of this thread? Did you not watch the Mario Joseph link? As a Muslim, I was invited to this thread by a Christian to share my thoughts here. Any reasonable adult would recognize this as a comparative religion discussion, and would logically expect one to ensue.
Under normal circumstances I do not focus on the differences between the Abrahamic faiths since we are all People of the Book, and guardians of the revealed scripture of the One God. My wife is Christian, and it is best to focus on those items we have in common. But on neutral ground on the Internet such as this thread, in which the differences between the faiths are open in a philosophical discussion framework, I will freely share my thoughts about it. I fail to see the reason why you two are being over-sensitive, and pretending that I was the vile interloper who intruded and attacked the two innocent Christian maidens. Nothing of the sort happened here. Not once did I get personal, or “question your beliefs” as you are so fond of repeating, but kept the conversation completely within the confines of philosophical doctrine which I perhaps foolishly assumed you were prepared for. Instead I am met with this silly, defensive sensitivity as you two clutch the proverbial pearls and faint.
Granted, the religion of Al-Islam is known for its uncompromising monotheism, while Pauline Christianity is significantly less so. As the youngest of the three faiths in the set, Islam is free of the usual pagan taint that mankind often saddles the message with in the ages old ritual, and arguing for its principles can come across as aggressive. But that is only the nature of this particular religious comparison study (and perhaps a lack of a certain level of tact on my part), and is by no means a personal attack by me onto you.
I cannot speak for anyone else you may have had religious conversations with; I can only argue from the stand point of my own understanding of scripture and faith. It seems to me that you are coloring the discussion with past experiences with other folk instead of taking the points I raise at face value. I find that fundamentally unfair, and even consider it narrow-minded.
As to the nature of the subject at hand, it is a matter of faith. We believe what we believe because we have faith it is so. In the matter of comparing Christianity to Islam, it is a bit different – the difference between choosing one over the other is about 25% faith, and 75% facts of historical record. For example I believe the One God of Abraham is exactly who He claims to be, so by extension, I believe in His books, His messengers, the unseen spirit, and the inevitability of Judgment Day. Everything we know about those things comes from His revealed scripture on earth, actual physical copies of text handled by the hands of men over the course of millennia. As such, there is a well-documented fact of record as to where these texts came from, who had them, who scribed them, who copied them from which, etc, etc. As God said, truth stands out clear from error, and the historical record of the book of God shows this to be the case. It is one thing to believe in aspects of existence that no mere human has the ability to prove or disprove, but another matter altogether to stubbornly believe in things that the physical earthly record reveal to be false, especially when that historical reveal actually lines up with what God Himself said in the final revelation of the canon of sacred scripture.
The bottom line is that pointing out facts, and pointing out that a fellow believer is choosing to believe in something that not only is far off from those facts, but in direct conflict with what the Lord Most High said about them, is a matter of duty from one believer to the next. Only the pagan is indifferent as to whether you believe in a falsehood or not. What scripture have they to guide them onto the correct path? It is their trademark that they just make it up as they go along willy-nilly as they lack guidance. The believers in the One God are different, for they are blessed with a most perspicuous Guide, a mercy from the Lord of all the worlds. The believers are obligated to point out where their fellows have strayed so that they have the opportunity to return to the Path. The believers have no excuse for treating the Word of God as merely a light suggestion, willy-nilly making up their faith as they go, in a vulgar imitation of the pagan.
The people of the One God are above this behavior, and should act accordingly.