Wednesday, December 17, 2014

Banishing Cain & The Neanderthal Enigma


Michael Daniels - Mo said "Cain left his family. That's what banishment means."
No, banishment in Cain's case meant leaving the area.

Gen 4:11
"11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand."

He left and set up his own area which he named after his son.

Gen 4:16-17
16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.

When humanity (his extended family) started spreading out they no doubt encountered Cain, but were forbidden to kill him.

Gen 4:15
15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so: anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.

Mo said "The neanderthals and other hominid species weren't human/angel hybrids, just other hominid species we shared the earth with..."

Scripture gives no indication, whatsoever, that this is true and science's evidence is scant at best...99% conjecture.

Mo said "necessary so their would be a womb for the first homo sapien to grow in."

Scripture is very specific on the method God used to create man. No womb required.

Gen 2:7
"7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

Mo said "It is yet unrevealed who or what exactly the Nephilim were."
Not really. Scripture seems pretty clear.

Gen 6:1-4
"When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

Muhammad Rasheed - 1.) I corrected that 'their' typo before you posted this. Waaayyy before.

2.) Scripture leaves out a LOT of stuff regarding how people lived during the ancient days. We have no idea what the First Family's life style was like. None at all. "99% conjecture" comes from everybody that talks about stuff not associated with the moral point that God told us the tale in the first place for.

3.) If Cain wasn't banished in the normal usage of the term sense, then why did you write: "When humanity (his extended family) started spreading out they no doubt encountered Cain...?" That's the area his family was in, the one he was banished from.

4.) ALL MEN are made from the dust of the ground. Everything in us is found in the dirt. In the Qur'an God said He made the Christ no different than the technique He used to make Adam in the first place, i.e. from scratch in his mother's womb.

5.) The scripture mentions the Nephilim, but we currently have no idea who or what they were in history. Other than the scripture's brief mention, the record of these creatures/beings is completely lost. Arbitrarily slapping that label on any random bone you pull from the ground is asinine. We shared the earth with other human-like creatures, whose mixture very clearly made the proper and perfect genetic soup for the miracle of homo sapien to make his debut. Neither neanderthal... nor any other of the hominid species around at the time... were Nephilim. They were just other versions of humans. Cain may or may not have taken his wife with him when he was banished from his people. I doubt it, but no one has any actual knowledge on that lost tidbit of history.

Michael Daniels - 1) Okay...I didn't even notice you made a typo, lighten up.

Michael Daniels - 2) I didn't comment on the first family's "life style" whatsoever.

Michael Daniels - 3) Because Cain and Abel apparently lived in the vicinity of the former Garden of Eden (which for several reasons I believe is actually modern day Israel). Cain moved East of there to Nod (again, I believe this area would eventually be known as Babylon and is now known as Iraq.) My point was that he was not prohibited from associating with his family (which by the way is not the normal usage of the term) just from the area that was associated with the presence of God. So if his family came to where he was it was no big deal as long as they didn't kill him.

Michael Daniels - 4) Chapter and verse of the Qu'ran, please (as I provided with the Bible)...If it says this the way you're indicating I can add it to the list of places the Qu'ran conflicts with God's legitimate Word. Of course all men are composed of the same elements. We're all descendants of the same two people.But Adam was formed in a unique way specifically outlined in the Bible. Eve was as well. There is no need for idle and false speculation on this point.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "1) Okay...I didn't even notice you made a typo, lighten up."

HOW DARE YOU?!? [kicks over stool]

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "2) I didn't comment on the first family's "life style" whatsoever."

You insinuate a lot of stuff that isn't there at all. Don't worry about it, I'll point it out every time you do it. I got chu.

Michael Daniels - 5) I didn't arbitrarily slap a label on anything. I said "Neanderthals fit the profile of the Nephilim ". That means I don't know for sure but it's a strong hypothesis based on scripture. Btw the word translated "mighty" in Hebrew is the same word for giant or humongous in english. It's the same word used to describe Goliath who we know was larger and had some extraordinary features.THe reason I think neanderthals fit the scientific profile of the Nephilum is that phrase "and also afterward" quoted above. If you look at the genetic discovery in the article you'll see that a certain amount of Neanderthal genetic material still exists in humans. Genesis chapter five gives us the bloodline of Noah through Seth which appears to be pure on the male side, but in later generations some of that Nephilum ancestry could have crept in on the female side. Even one of the wives of Shem, Ham or Japheth could have been mixed with Nephilum. There is no scientific or Biblical evidence that "we shared the earth with other human-like creatures,,,". That's just unsupported silliness.

"....Nephilim. They were just other versions of humans." What is your standing to say this so definitively when it appears to contradict the Bible (one of the parts you "say" you believe in)?

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "3) Because Cain and Abel apparently lived in the vicinity of the former Garden of Eden (which for several reasons I believe is actually modern day Israel)."

The Garden of scripture is paradise. They were kicked out when they disobeyed, and they settled on earth. Because of the time period the area they settled in was no doubt lush and green and it reminded them of the heavenly garden of their former home, so they probably named it "Eden." This is my working '99% conjecture' regarding it that I believe is stronger than your boring one.

Michael Daniels wrote: "Cain moved East of there to Nod (again, I believe this area would eventually be known as Babylon and is now known as Iraq.) My point was that he was not prohibited from associating with his family (which by the way is not the normal usage of the term) just from the area that was associated with the presence of God."

He was 'banished' from everything and everybody he knew for his evil. Period. You're just making up stuff that doesn't make sense.

Michael Daniels wrote: "So if his family came to where he was it was no big deal as long as they didn't kill him."

If his family came to were he was, he would have to pack up and leave again because he was banished.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "4) Chapter and verse of the Qu'ran, please..."

You've read it before several times. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was." ~ The Holy Qur'an 3:59

Michael Daniels wrote: "Of course all men are composed of the same elements. We're all descendants of the same two people.But Adam was formed in a unique way specifically outlined in the Bible."

The unique way was the same unique way Jesus was created, and that would be from scratch in his mother's womb.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "5) I didn't arbitrarily slap a label on anything. I said "Neanderthals fit the profile of the Nephilim "."

That's a clear arbitrary label slapping because no they do not.

Michael Daniels wrote: "That means I don't know for sure but..."

...but you're going to go ahead and say it anyway because no other evidence for who the Nephilim really were has come forth so I'll just slap the label on the neanderthals because arbitrary.

Michael Daniels wrote: "...it's a strong hypothesis based on scripture."

It's an extremely weak hypothesis based on a hasty eagerness to fill in a puzzle without having the proper pieces.

Michael Daniels wrote: "Btw the word translated "mighty" in Hebrew is the same word for giant or humongous in english. It's the same word used to describe Goliath who we know was larger and had some extraordinary features.THe reason I think neanderthals fit the scientific profile of the Nephilum is that phrase "and also afterward" quoted above. If you look at the genetic discovery in the article you'll see that a certain amount of Neanderthal genetic material still exists in humans. Genesis chapter five gives us the bloodline of Noah through Seth which appears to be pure on the male side, but in later generations some of that Nephilum ancestry could have crept in on the female side. Even one of the wives of Shem, Ham or Japheth could have been mixed with Nephilum."

[duck bill flapping motion with hand] What does all that babbling have to do with the neanderthal/nephilim connection? Who the heck told you the neanderthals were giants? Deac there is no need for idle and false speculation on this point.

Michael Daniels wrote: "There is no scientific or Biblical evidence that "we shared the earth with other human-like creatures,,,". That's just unsupported silliness."

Okay then you are now banned from ever using the word "neanderthal" again. Doofus.



Michael Daniels - "Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was."

I'm trying to stick up for the Qu'ran here. It doesn't say they were created in the exact same way, just that they looked the same and their physical bodies were composed of the same materials.

Only having had one human parent Jesus only retained Mary's genetic substance, hence the "Seed of the woman" prophecy in Genesis.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "....Nephilim. They were just other versions of humans." What is your standing to say this so definitively when it appears to contradict the Bible (one of the parts you "say" you believe in)?"

Sloppy writing on my part. I said neither the Neanderthals, nor any other hominid species, were Nephilim. Those other creatures were only other versions of humans. We don't know who or what the Nephilim are.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels "Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was."

I'm trying to stick up for the Qu'ran here. It doesn't say they were created in the exact same way, just that they looked the same and their physical bodies were composed of the same materials."

You're interpreting it from an odd and small minded place. "Likeness" meaning "similarity in how they were made" not physical likeness, dummy. What the heck...?

Michael Daniels "Only having had one human parent Jesus only retained Mary's genetic substance, hence the "Seed of the woman" prophecy in Genesis."

They both only had one human parent, and what does that have to do with what we are talking about?

Michael Daniels - Is there anything else supporting your view that this scripture says Adam and Jesus were created in the exact same way....because your word "similarity" only makes it more vague and does nothing to support your assertion?

Michael Daniels - If you want to blatantly ignore what the Holy Bible says about who th Nephilim are be my guest. It's not like you don't disbelieve the Bible on some far more important points. Whether or not these bones that are found and attributed to a species called neanderthal are Nephilim is an educated guess on my part. They could just as easily be examples of malformed humans. But all humans are descended from Adam, and there were no versions of humans before him.... that is a clear and true Biblical statement. In 100,000 years if scientists dug up the femur of a Watuzi and one of a Pigmy would they attribute them to be the same species (assuming they had a similar level of technology we now have)? Genesis indicates that angels contaminated the gene pool and the flood cleared up that mess.

Muhammad Rasheed - lol It's cut n dry to me. But you're predisposed to dismiss the Qur'an anyway. You shouldn't.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "If you want to blatantly ignore what the Holy Bible says about who th Nephilim are be my guest."

I do believe that they were human/spirit hybrids the way the bible says, sure. I just don't believe in labeling every stray toe bone found in the ground as a Nephilim.

Clear now?

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "But all humans are descended from Adam, and there were no versions of humans before him..."

Remember when I said I was going to point out your wild insinuations about what the bible didn't say as proof of a fact? There's one.

Michael Daniels - Cut and dry? Is this a belief typical to Muslims, that Adam was incubated in a neanderthal womb rather than formed and shaped directly by God Who blew into his nostrils as the Bible clearly states?

Michael Daniels - Really? you don't think the Bible says Adam was the first human? Is this a point you really want to challenge me on, Bruh?....Lol

Muhammad Rasheed - Adam WAS the first human being. The first homo sapien. But there were other hominids around, who lacked the 'communicating with the spirit' component we have. It was in one of their bellies that Adam was created in.

Michael Daniels - And you're saying that these two sentences "Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was." is proof of that? And that it's cut and dry? Please nswer my question, "Is this a common belief in Islam?"

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "Cut and dry? Is this a belief typical to Muslims, that Adam was incubated in a neanderthal womb rather than formed and shaped directly by God Who blew into his nostrils as the Bible clearly states?"

The actual science behind it is yet to be discovered, but the scriptures say the similarity between the two was what it was, and we KNOW how Jesus got here.

I reject all literal interpretations of anthropomorphic descriptions of God. That is a major weakness of the Christian. No offense.

Michael Daniels - "I reject all literal interpretations of anthropomorphic descriptions of God."
And yet, that's how God consistently chooses to reveal Himself culminating in the literal anthropomorphic Person of Jesus of Nazereth. Apparnetly God used those anthropomorphic descriptions to prepare us for His earthly arrival.

Michael Daniels - Okay, now I see you reject your own scripture as well as mine
15:26 (Pickthal)
"Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,"
(Shakir)
"And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape."

15:26 (Pickthal)
"So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him."
(Shakir)
"So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him."

It seems as though these scriptures are pertinant to the discussion. I wonder why you didn't quote them to me.

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "And yet, that's how God consistently chooses to reveal Himself culminating in the literal anthropomorphic Person of Jesus of Nazereth. Apparnetly God used those anthropomorphic descriptions to prepare us for His earthly arrival."


Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "It seems as though these scriptures are pertinant to the discussion. I wonder why you didn't quote them to me."

Pertinent in what way? We already talked about that. He fashioned ALL men of dust/dirt/clay/mud.

And you're supposed to interpret scripture as your profession???



Muhammad Rasheed - Get off my timeline, Deac!

Michael Daniels - But you're saying he didn't fashion/form Adam directly from the earth but grew him in the womb of a pre-created neanderthal woman. For the third time......"Is this a common belief in Islam?"

Michael Daniels - You can post humorous pictures of Jesus, and yet Muhammed images are off limits?

Muhammad Rasheed - Do you believe that pic is Jesus?

Muhammad Rasheed - Michael Daniels wrote: "But you're saying he didn't fashion/form Adam directly from the earth but grew him in the womb of a pre-created neanderthal woman."

God fashions us all from clay in that method. That's how He does it. In the normal biological gestation cycle. He's using metaphor to describe it.

Michael Daniels wrote: "For the third time......"Is this a common belief in Islam?"

Is it a common Christian belief that the Nephilim were Neanderthals or that the Garden of Eden was in Israel? Why ARE you asking me that foolishness so often?

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