Tasia P Johnson - God already knows upon creating an individual, whether they're destined for heaven or hell. He then goes on to create the hellbound anyway. How is this justifiable?
Tasia P Johnson - We have no free will and everything that happens could be represented by a mathematical function. We are all a product of genetics and environment.
Where is the free will of someone who has never even been exposed to Christianity or Islam? Heaven by default? Hell by default?
Sean Moore - Thinking to much. It's not by default it's by choice. Has nothing to do with an all knowing God
Tasia P Johnson - Am I thinking too much? Or are you not thinking enough.
Sean Moore - No. I did more thinking than I care too when getting my degree in biblical theology. In my 47 years I've learned that sometimes it's just not that deep.
Tasia P Johnson - A biblical theology degree Or did you mean biblical & theological studies? Or perhaps just a theology degree?
Ansley Vaughn - Religion has always been "deep". Why do you think it's so many debates and arguments on it alone? Especially breaking down holy trinity and Jesus himself. Biblical theology or the Bible as a whole is not deep then why try to convert so many to Christianity. It's like a bad, low budget car commercial you keep getting hounded into it because no other religion matters right? Or no other religion will reward you heaven or condemn you to hell without repentance?
Sean Moore - You talking bout religion. I'm talking about relationship. That's the difference.
Mon Crockett - Hard, scientific research shows that "free will" is most likely bullshit.
If you think your are controlling the countless processes in your brain, you need to quit kidding yourself.
Sean Moore - That was ignorant
Mon Crockett - Though not as arrogant as thinking you have volition when it comes to the countless processes in your brain which go on without your knowledge & permission.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tasia P Johnson wrote: "We have no free will..."
You are free to choose whether you believe in God or not. No one makes you believe or not believe. This is Free Will.
Tasia P Johnson wrote: "Where is the free will of someone who has never even been exposed to Christianity or Islam? Heaven by default? Hell by default?"
In the Qur'an, God said it isn't about the actual religions. As long as you believe in the Supreme Creator, do more good than evil in life, then you will win heaven. The conscious choice to do this is your Free Will in action.
Tasia P Johnson - @Muhammad Rasheed… Why do you believe this over .... say.. Christianity, or Hinduism. Everyone can't be right, what makes Islam the chosen doctrine for you?
Muhammad Rasheed - Well, Abrahamic religion is composed of two aspects:
1) The belief in spirit part, that cannot be scientifically measured through any reliable, or universally agreed upon degree using the tools of Western society. In scripture, God says "just believe" and that's the only way you can approach something that cannot be physically proven. All three of the Abrahamic doctrine have this in common. Within this aspect there is the concept of the One God revealing His message to mankind through the prophet-messengers.
2) Then there's the scientifically verifiable history of Abrahamic scripture on earth. Scientists use various disciplines (linguistics, archaeology, etc.) to verify whether the three religions' claims about the history of the scripture they hold is true or not. Within that record we discover that the Jews deliberately hid/altered their scripture, and rejected several of the prophets, in order to tell their egotistical preferred narrative of God's message that artificially upholds them as specially favored over the rest of mankind. Within the Christian doctrine we discover that Paul usurped the message of the Christ Jesus from the messenger's hand-picked heir to spread his own pagan-tainted message for his own agenda. Over the millennia the church continued to tweak/perfect Paul's message further and further away from the Christ's original, which we find in the records was little different from what we know of Al-Islam. The problems we find in Islam's doctrine are found to be artificially tacked on in the form of 'hadith' that are easily proven to be fraudulent, as well as lazy and biased misreadings of the Qur'an, from a egotistical 'scholar class' that appoints themselves as priestly middle men, directly at odds with the verse & spirit of the Qur'an itself. Between the three faiths, Islam is the only one with its source scripture from God still intact, and (despite what the "official scholars" believe) is 100% open for scrutiny and independent study by whoever has the will and discipline to do so. This alone sets Islam's claims high above what the two older faiths hold. to me
Mon Crockett - EXCEPT ... the "scripture from God" part is assertion only.
Speaking it matter-of-factly does not make it fact.
You can't demonstrate this. You can only assert it. You may as well make up anything about anything. It will be no more or less valid.
Muhammad Rasheed - That's why I carefully separated the 'Matters of Faith' from the archaeology aspect of what the historical record shows. Of course I cannot prove that the source of sacred scripture was the One God (nor would I make the attempt). Other than my own personal belief, what actually has me choose Al-Islam over the other two is what I described in bullet 2 above, and those items are available in public record.
Mon Crockett - Bullet 2 wasn't compelling at all to me. But ... whatever.
I've studied Islamic history, read the Qur'an, etc. I regard it as laughably barbaric, savage, backward gibberish.
But don't mind me ... I ain't woke Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Muhammad Rasheed - I didn't write it to be "compelling," but to answer Tasia's question. I consider someone who approaches the material with a hardened heart, who casually dismisses the major claims as fictions just because they don't want to put in any effort, to be the literal opposite of "woke." The atheist is the most narrow-minded person among us, in my experience.
Muhammad Rasheed - This response of yours here demonstrates you aren't even trying to wrap your mind around the concepts. I'm left with the conclusion that you are intellectually incapable of doing so because of arrogant willfulness.
Mon Crockett - @Muhammad Rasheed… nigga I already owned my opposite-of-wokeness. I told you that, remember?
Like with your faith-based shit, your "don't want to put in any effort" poppycock is baseless. Tell me SPECIFICALLY what your evidence of of me not putting in effort.
AAAAAAND ... effort to do what ... specifically?
Mon Crockett - :D " ... aren't even trying to wrap your head around the concepts." :D
This shit ain't complex, deep, or none of that.
It's "just believe it real hard since there's zero evidence."
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Once again you are demonstrating that you are mouthing off about material that you don't understand on even the most fundamental level. You believe you are 'smart' because you casually dismiss topics you have never tried to understand, even from an academically objective viewpoint.
Muhammad Rasheed - Let me assure you this is the very opposite of intelligence.
Muhammad Rasheed - It's embarrassing watching you flop around like a fish.
Jerode Blanks - Well.... God grants every human with the gift "Free Will" so technically everyone is granted a chance for Heaven. Some chose the opposite direction.
Tasia P Johnson - God creates free will, hell, the system that will send humans to hell, sin, a sinful human body, and Satan to tempt man. He is omnipresent omnipotent and omniscient (all present, all powerful, and all knowing).
Why not create a utopia instead?
Jerode Blanks - @Tasia P Johnson… Only God knows that true answer to that question. There's a reason for everything.
Mon Crockett - The hypothesis that "god" gives us free will shoots itself in the foot.
We weren't even allowed to freely choose whether or not we want free will.
Mon Crockett - Plus ... he knows, WITHOUT A DOUBT, that a future baby rapist will use his free will to rape babies, yet he/she/it creates the baby rapist anyway.
What kinda sadistic, evil shit is that???
Tasia P Johnson - @Mon Crockett… nobody is ready for you :D
Muhammad Rasheed - Tasia P Johnson wrote: "Why not create a utopia instead?"
The Supreme Creator did create the utopia. God created it first, and then created the earth and the contest between righteousness & evil. In the end the people who win that contest will populate God's utopia. As a human who is limited by the ebb and flow of linear time, I can sit back and wonder why God didn't skip the drama and make sure utopia was filled with who He wanted it filled with from the beginning, but God isn't bound by time. God created time for us. So it doesn't make sense to me to judge how He does things from our limited perspective. We can only see certain finite angles, while God sees ALL the angles. That's why God gets to be God.
Mon Crockett - @Tasia P Johnson… I'll do the judging then.
This "god" nigga (if that is his real name) is obviously a retarded ass, rape-/murder-/torture-/malaria-/still-birth/etc.-loving sadist.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to trick niggas into calling him "god" then have you think being an asshole is "a mystery" when it comes to "god's" asshole behavior.
Muhammad Rasheed - Mon Crockett wrote: "I'll do the judging then."
lol By what authority do you judge God with a straight face? From where do you judge a being that can create a universe from scratch?
By its nature, life on earth is full of struggle and hardship. In scripture God explains that how we individuals deal with that hardship determines the quality of life ever-lasting we will have on the other side of this finite existence. So however hard our time here can get, it will still be temporary, and as long as you dig as deep as you need to to overcome it according to God's rules, you will win the contest. This is the nature of life. Your opinion of the matter is exactly the opinion that one loses from.
Tasia P Johnson -
Mon Crockett - By authority of being nonfiction Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Muhammad Rasheed - The Supreme Creator who knows all said He is not a fiction, but a tiny, disbelieving and thus hellbound piece of His creation said that He is a fiction. Which should I then take seriously? lol
Mon Crockett - @Muhammad Rasheed… now ...
- DEMONSTRATE that "The Supreme Creator" said this
- But before that, DEMONSTRATE that his/her/its word is to be trusted
- But before that, DEMONSTRATE that he/she/it actually exists ... is indeed not a fiction ... rather than some long-ago nigga wrote it and easily got you to believe yada, yada, yada.
I'll be over here not woke & waiting Zzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Muhammad Rasheed - 1) God's revealed scripture on earth is that very demonstration you seek. Accept it.
2) By His nature, the Supreme Creator of the heavens and the earth, who made you and gave you life, is the very definition of Trustworthy. This is a common sense item.
3) No. That's why I very carefully separated 'Matters of Faith' from scientifically verifiable aspects of the Abrahamic historical record. Only the narrow-minded insist upon terrestrial realm evidence to prove the immaterial. This demonstrates someone expressing opinions of work far above their intellectual grade (while giggling w/emojis).
Mon Crockett - Hahahahaha Bunch of non-falsifiable gobbledygook.
Your premises wreak of a multitude of logical fallacies. Sooooo ... I'm gonna leave you to that while I continue my opposite-of-wokeness ... thanking Allah for putting God Emperor Donald the Merciful in office to keep those rapey, terrorist-descent inbreeds, who take that Qur'an shit to heart, out of this country. #Alhamdulillah
Muhammad Rasheed - 1) Name the first logical fallacy I've committed for analysis, please.
2) What "Qur'an shit" are you specifically referring to?
Mon Crockett – Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Muhammad Rasheed - Naturally I'll interpret this as you cannot provide this material because you don't know how, and/or were only bluffing. Figures.
Muhammad Rasheed - At this point I'm confused as to why you are even following me around in this thread to begin with...
Mon Crockett - Embrace the confusion my child. It builds character.
Muhammad Rasheed - No thank you. I reject foolishness as a lifestyle choice. You should learn to do the same. Then you won't do so much fish-floppin' as you've so proudly demonstrated here.
Mon Crockett – Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Good night, crazy.