Saturday, February 28, 2015

Looking Back with Regret

TracieMai Marshall[shares link]

Efrain Aviles - everybody needs the money

Eddie Xmith - No contest.
Nobody could beat Iron Mike in his prime.
No Body

Muhammad Rasheed - Did you get past Holyfield and Lewis?  Then shaddap.

Mayweather would've run circles around you.

Eddie Xmith - He fought neither of them in his physical and mental prime.

Muhammad Rasheed - ...and he wished he could've fought him for what? For the payday? Why doesn’t he just make more movies and hush?

Mike abandoned boxing during the peak of his popularity, and destroyed a potential excellent legacy. I don't want to hear that nonsense from him now.

Muhammad Rasheed - Eddie Xmith wrote: "He fought neither of them in his physical and mental prime." 

That's the thing: Tyson's head was his biggest weakness. He had the talent and skills and threw them away because he was unable to focus. In the end he proved that he didn't have the heart of a champion. That's why he's talking this way now, because he looks at Mayweather carefully crafting his own legacy in the sport, and he's jealous.

Muhammad Rasheed - Don't look back with regret now, Mike. Those days are gone. Look forward and do something different now. Continue to develop those relationships with Hollywood. They love you over there.

Eddie Xmith - @Muhammad... I will conceed. You are 100% correct in your account.  Tyson failed. He worn the belt but failed to be a champion.  And his greatest weakness was that of his charactor.

Violent Hatred & Angry Hate Rhetoric are Not Equal

Muhammad Rasheed[shared link]

KKK Was Terrorizing America Decades Before Islamic State Appeared

"There are racists who equate the KKK with the Black Panthers. Show me any photos of the Panthers having a picnic and smiling while a white man is lynched, burned, castrated and beheaded. Terrorism is as American as apple pie." ~ Andre Owens

Derek Mason - Original REAL Black Panthers and the KKK are nothing aike. The New Black Panthers and KKK share the same philosophies of hate though

Muhammad Rasheed - But who did they lynch & oppress? If all these groups were just talk then we wouldn't have any problems.

Empty rhetoric means NOTHING.

Derek Mason - Oh yeah no doubt. New Panthers talk a good game, but they are about as dangerous as a militant troop of boy scouts. Had former memebrs tell me that they don't even have ammo in their guns. Just a bunch of rhetoric

Muhammad Rasheed - Exactly.

But the true racist want to act like the BP are every bit the exact same as the KKK ever was. NO white men were hanging from trees like peculiar fruit by any BP folk.

Scooter Alvarez - Reiterating:
"But who did they lynch & oppress? If all these groups were just talk then we wouldn't have any problems.  Empty rhetoric means NOTHING."

Derek Mason - No, the only damage the rhetoric the NBPP does is to the legacy and credibility of the Real BPP. I know they didn't lynch or hang anybody.

Scooter Alvarez - Huh? How is the NBPP on equal footing with an organization hundreds of years old with thousands of bodies under its belt?

Derek Mason - Who said they were on equal footing ?

Muhammad Rasheed - Derek Mason wrote: "No, the only damage the rhetoric the NBPP does is to the legacy and credibility of the Real BPP."

The new guys are no more damaging to the real BP's legacy than these Arab militants are to the legacy of Ancient Egypt. If the chronically stupid want to believe they are the same group then let them. The stupid will always be among us, Derek. No rational argument is designed for the poor of mind.

Scooter Alvarez - "The New Black Panthers and KKK share the same philosophies of hate though"

Derek Mason - Same philosophies, not activities

Scooter Alvarez - Arguing for the sake of arguing...  Night

Derek Mason - Dude you were the one who misread what I was saying, chill with that shit bro. "

Derek Mason - Bpp chairman Bobby Seale once stated a lot of his speaking tours were cancelled because people thought the BPP and NPP were the same group

Scooter Alvarez - What does that have to do with the OP?

Derek Mason - sigh, nothing " Scooter ". I have neither the time nor patience tonite.

Scooter Alvarez - Comparing the KKK with any black organization is asinine.
So what they have "similar philosophies of hate", the Klan has a background of violence that pales in comparison.

This is along the lines of telling people that all lives matter vs. black lives matter...

Muhammad Rasheed - Derek Mason wrote: "Bpp chairman Bobby Seale once stated a lot of his speaking tours were cancelled because people thought the BPP and NPP were the same group"

That means that they booked these people to come speak, but didn’t do any research into who they actually were to know the difference.

That’s stupid.

Scooter Alvarez - Why even bring up the NBPP? This isn't about them.

Derek Mason - G'day sir

Scooter Alvarez -

Derek Mason - No actually I'm quite happy. Friday night. Just got paid.

Derek Mason - I see you feeing some type of way though. Some type of way .Made you fee some type of waaaaaaay. Scooter. Say hello to Turbo and Leader -1 for me

Scooter Alvarez - I thought you left

Derek Mason - I did, but you called me back.

Scooter Alvarez - @Muhammad Rasheed… come get yo' people LOL

Erik J. Nielsen - Excellent job of pointing out the obvious, that so few people want to acknowledge. Thank you.

Muhammad Rasheed - Both of you are my people. lol

Derek Mason - I apologize . Wasn't trying to disrupt the line. I know racists are gonna think what they want to think. I was just saying how one group could mislead those already mislead by acting a way simiar to the KKK. Sorry Scooter, no beef bro.

Muhammad Rasheed - Stop calling Scooter a "bro," you reverse racist!

Muhammad Rasheed -

Dan DeLyon - No lynchings. Apparently prefer burning buildings. #Ferguson

Muhammad Rasheed - 1.) The new Black Panthers burned a building in Ferguson? Is that what you are saying?

2.) How many buildings burned in frustration equaled to one human life?

Jeremy Travis - The buildings burnt in Ferguson were set on fire by law enforcement provocateurs, that's why they were allowed to burn down completely without the firefighters being called to put them out. These people do devilish things and then point the finger at everyone... EVERYONE... else.

Friday, February 27, 2015

The Return of Kirb Brimstone

Kirb Brimstone[tagged me in link]

Ravi Zacharias - Islam (YouTube)

Muhammad Rasheed - Did you really delete me and now you're tagging me in stuff?

Muhammad Rasheed - And how can you tag me in stuff when I'm deleted?

Muhammad Rasheed - Send me a new Friend Request and I'll forgive you of your foolishness.

Kirb Brimstone - I thought you deleted me.

Muhammad Rasheed - I don't delete people. I'm trying to reach 5,000 FB Friends. Deleting folk would be counter-productive to my goal.

Kirb Brimstone - Maybe I did delete you and forgot. You're brother must have done something to really piss me off.

Kirb Brimstone - Anyway I tag you becuase this reminded me of you.

Muhammad Rasheed - I remind you of a fat Indian Christian apologist with snow white hair?

Muhammad Rasheed - I don't know how to feel about that...  >:(

Kirb Brimstone - He isn't fat.

Muhammad Rasheed - Alright. His head is fat.

Kirb Brimstone - No.

Muhammad Rasheed - lol

Kirb Brimstone - You should check out my new art.

Muhammad Rasheed - Kirb Brimstone wrote: "Maybe I did delete you and forgot. You're brother must have done something to really piss me off."

Did it have anything to do with you dying first during a zombie apocalypse?

Muhammad Rasheed - Kirb Brimstone wrote: "You should check out my new art."

I would've loved to, but you deleted me like a scrub.


Muhammad Rasheed - Oh. We're friends again. Okay, I'll check it out.

Muhammad Rasheed - (scrub)

Muhammad Rasheed - Where's it?

Muhammad Rasheed - Do you have an art page? I'm about to make me one.

Kirb Brimstone

Muhammad Rasheed - Cooool...


Kirb Brimstone - "Did it have anything to do with you dying first during a zombie apocalypse?"

I don't remember but I doubt that was the reason.

but yeah why did I die first in the zombie apocalypse

Muhammad Rasheed - 'Cause your head was too heavy to run fast? I dunno. Why are you asking me? That was A-Rah's scenario. 

Mine had a bunch of white dudes in it.

Kirb Brimstone - "I WANT ONE!" 

It's easy to make. I closed my group and switched to a page a while back. 

Better suited for our purposes I think.

Kirb Brimstone - Anyhoo. Feel free to like the page and give me heads up when you make your own.

Kirb Brimstone - also Instagram is a good place to post you art too.

Muhammad Rasheed - Before I click on this, am I going to see some sequentials finally? Or are you still bullshittin'?

Muhammad Rasheed - Instagram requires a Smart Phone, and I don't have that.

Kirb Brimstone - No.

Muhammad Rasheed - "No" what?

Kirb Brimstone - "Instagram requires a Smart Phone, and I don't have that."

Well get that. It's 2015.

Muhammad Rasheed - No. 

Kirb Brimstone - No Sequentials.

Muhammad Rasheed - WTH???????

Kirb Brimstone - Smh. Old People.

Kirb Brimstone - It's not time yet.

Muhammad Rasheed - You need to at least make a 4-6 page story teaser for this world!

Muhammad Rasheed - You're waiting till you're old?

Kirb Brimstone - No you're old because you don't have a smart phone. I waiting till I'm ready.

Kirb Brimstone - Tell me your thoughts on this. 

Muhammad Rasheed - This is a star map of your story-verse? I think it's wonderful.

Kirb Brimstone - Wow. That is the best way I've ever heard it put.

Muhammad Rasheed - "Wonderful?"

Muhammad Rasheed - lol What do they usually say?

Kirb Brimstone - No the "star map story-verse" part.

Muhammad Rasheed - Oh. That's what it is.

Muhammad Rasheed - Your art page has a button that goes to your personal website!

Kirb Brimstone - yep

Muhammad Rasheed - O_O

Muhammad Rasheed - I WANT ONE!!!

Muhammad Rasheed - I have to draw my Timeline cover first. I'm doing that now...

Kirb Brimstone - Wow cool!

Muhammad Rasheed - I printed out the templates earlier today to do it. Seriously.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm glad you repented of your erroneous FB-Friend-deleting foolishness.

Muhammad Rasheed - dude...

that Ravi clip is 42+ minutes long.  >:(

Muhammad Rasheed - Sum it up for me in a bullet list.

Kirb Brimstone - Also your brother thinks I'm dark skinned.

Muhammad Rasheed - That's why you deleted us?


Muhammad Rasheed - You're darker than HIM.

Muhammad Rasheed - (you must be from the South)

Muhammad Rasheed - hahahahahaha

Kirb Brimstone - He had me believing it for a while till like very one I knew thought I was crazy

Kirb Brimstone - As one guy put it, "Nigga you red as F*ck!"

Muhammad Rasheed - Yeah, you're from the South if whether you're dark-skinned or not is that serious of an issue. hahahahahaha

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm sorry, but that topic has no interest for me.

Muhammad Rasheed <----michigan comment-----michigan--="">

Muhammad Rasheed - lol

Kirb Brimstone - I'm just saying I offended real Dark skinned dudes. Who literally got angry when I said I wasn't red.

Kirb Brimstone - True story.

Muhammad Rasheed - Now let's get back to this Ravi thing. Sum up his main points like that Mario Joseph dude did his, please.

Kirb Brimstone - He made me look like a fool.

Kirb Brimstone - No.

Kirb Brimstone - I'm not from the south.

Muhammad Rasheed - Kirb, you're telling me that some random guy on the Internet told you something, you took ownership of it, and it made you look like a fool. 

Trust me, you want to let that go and not repeat that ever again.

Kirb Brimstone - South Florida is nothing like the South.

Kirb Brimstone - I said it half jokingly.

Kirb Brimstone - C'mon you still don't get my humor?

Muhammad Rasheed - Kirb Brimstone wrote: "I'm not from the south. South Florida is nothing like the South."

Oh, my bad. I see it now. How could I have been so wrong?

Kirb Brimstone - You've gotta come here to understand.

Muhammad Rasheed - Kirb Brimstone wrote: "C'mon you still don'y get my humor?"

No. Should I?

I'm not from psycho-ass Florida.

Kirb Brimstone - South Florida is more akin to the Caribbean then the South.

Muhammad Rasheed - Yeah, that explains your dark/light skin complex...

Muhammad Rasheed - [rolls eyes]

Kirb Brimstone - Still not sure I un-friended you but why did Travis unfriend me?

Muhammad Rasheed - Anyway, I'm going to finish this Timeline Cover for my new art page. In the meanwhile you can list the main bullet points for Ravi's thing for me. Thanks!

Muhammad Rasheed - I suspect you unfriended the 3 of us in a ferocious unfriending rage.

Kirb Brimstone - Nigga you're one shade lighter then me. You cast a whole lotta shades of black people into the dark skin category.

Kirb Brimstone - No. I don't do that.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm speculating, of course. I can't pretend to understand the wild Floridian mind.

Kirb Brimstone - A-Rah unfriended me.

Muhammad Rasheed - No way. You gave him WAY too much material.

Kirb Brimstone - Travis (it's Travis right?) unfriended me.

Kirb Brimstone - Hey I'm just telling you what happened.

Muhammad Rasheed - Didn't I say I'm trying to draw this thing?

You're officially distracting me now.

Kirb Brimstone - alright I gotta go. invite me to you page when your finished.

For the People - The US Government Working as Intended

Muhammad Rasheed - The Libertarians famously are supposed to be for “limited government.” This is common knowledge. Classic GOP talking point doctrine is also supposed to support a “smaller, limited government.”

What does that mean exactly? It means that the government should be scaled back so that it is restricted to providing mostly its primary function: To enforce the law.

The people determine what is important to them, laws are drafted up that define those items, and the government enforces those rules. This is the heart of our successful civilization at work.

As an example, look at this “Internet Neutrality” item. It began when certain mega-corporations made an attempt to monopolize the Internet’s Free Market – a marketplace that had been working pretty well for everyone up to this point as free markets usually do – by trying to get their politician cronies to pass laws that would enable providers to determine what content became available, controlling which messages were accessed faster, etc., so they could become richer at everyone else's expense. The people said they didn’t want that at all, and the Federal Communications Commission agreed it was a major concern to protect the Internet Free Market, passing laws in the people’s behalf that would protect it from corporatist monopolies and cartels.

This action demonstrates a government that is working the way true American patriots claim they want their government to function, and what Libertarians and Republicans claim that they want. Any talk that you read or hear saying that the FCC’s ruling is a bad one (“Now they are going to take over the country! This is another step in a socialist take over! The government is secretly trying to monopolize the Internet for itself! Next they are coming for our guns!”), is coming from either your enemy, or a brainwashed slave of your enemy. There is no grey area here.

See Also: Do You Like the Internet? Here's How to Protect It!

Saturday, February 21, 2015


This week's Illustration Friday submission.

M. Rasheed, Cartoonist-Publisher
Monsters 101 graphic novels
Second Sight Graphix

Thursday, February 19, 2015

The Cure for Indoctrination

Muhammad Rasheed - [posted meme]

Jeremy Travis - But what is the right/fair/just/respectful/best way to do that?

Brett Barton - Hitler used this platform. It works.

Muhammad Rasheed - Jeremy Travis wrote: "But what is the right/fair/just/respectful/best way to do that?"

1.) To carefully, thoroughly and frequently explain to the masses why what they are holding onto is wrong...

2.) ...and why what you have to give them is better. 

3.) Ask for volunteers to go to the training facility.

4.) Once trained, they can return to the original (ghetto) area they were from and recruit new members with their success examples and testimony.

Muhammad Rasheed - Brett Barton wrote: "Hitler used this platform. It works."

Who did Hitler indoctrinate?

Dave Stephens - Pretty much every German…

Muhammad Rasheed - Hitler didn't indoctrinate the Germans. He just led them. What makes you think they were indoctrinated?

Dave Stephens - Well, that's what the German say about their own history… The indoctrination of their own youth...

Muhammad Rasheed - Of their youth? How long was Hitler in power?

Dave Stephens - 12 years BUT massively influential for more than a decade before...

Dave Stephens - There were tons of interviews of older Germans in the 80s and what they remembered about their own indoctrination was heartbreaking...

Muhammad Rasheed - He had influence within the party circles, but according to the article they had to finagle him into high leadership. While he was in power, the Reich no doubt had a child indoctrination Aryan Superiority program in place, but what about the adults of the time? How would he have indoctrinated them? He was just a political leader to them. One of many.

They weren't indoctrinated. They were just following.

Brett Barton - Hitler wasn't seen as "just a political leader"

Ze Germans believed what he was doing was destiny and birth right.

Muhammad Rasheed - Was that indoctrination, or were they celebrating something in his speeches that they already felt was true that Hitler was merely touching on? It's WHY they found him charismatic... because he was able to stir their deepest feelings, feelings he shared and articulated powerfully.

In a similar parallel, when Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray compiled the historical data that made up the bulk of their book "The Bell Curve," even though the information they pulled showed otherwise, they still said in the summary chapter that wrapped up the book that IQ and race were fundamentally linked. In the controversy that followed in the wake of the book's publishing, many whites skipped the study itself and paraded around the author's summary as gospel, even though their hesitant implication was not supported by the facts they themselves compiled. Like them, the supporters of that stance believed what they thought in their hearts and wanted to be true, and followed their lead, just like Hitler's followers did. Any indoctrination that may have been involved happened LOOONG before The Bell Curve, and LOOOONG before the rise of the Nazi Party.

The House of Sinanju: Napoleon Hit

I love Friz Freleng.  hahahaha

See Also: AT LAST! The Destroyer Returns to the Comic Pages

Favorite Movie Scenes from Remo Williams - comic strip format

Destroyer Comics: Pagination Process

Sunday, February 15, 2015

"In Whitest Day..."

Muhammad Rasheed - [shared link]  Fuckin' thugs.

 Raymond Gardner - Gee, that's a real tailspin of culture going on there...

Justanna Mack - It's more of the fact that they were using it to buy alcohol not fraud in the sence they lied to get it. The store owner should be arrested too for accepting the food stamps as payment for the alcohol.

Ba Sheer A. Musawwir - Whew....Muhammad I was looking at the 30 people, just glad there Is no one Bill O Riley likes to signal out

Gary McCoy - If I had said "F'n thugs" to a picture containing blacks, you,Muhammad, would be doing your usual "RACIST" cry. You sir, are a flaming one. By the way, based on a percentage of the population, blacks are the greater recipients of food stamps. Look at the last column (Facts are stubborn things.) ... Statistics from

Muhammad Rasheed - Gary McCoy wrote: "If I had said "F'n thugs" to a picture containing blacks, you,Muhammad, would be doing your usual 'RACIST' cry."

The very reason I said that was to point out the hypocrisy and double-standards I see every day on my Newsfeed, Gary. I'm genuinely unsurprised the message went over your head.

Muhammad Rasheed - Over the course of the next few weeks I expect a certain demographic to explain how these aren't 'thugs,' and take the time to come up with all kinds of reasons to justify why they NEEDED to scam the system to support their families, etc., while if the image skin tones were browner, the same folk would of course call them thugs.

Thanks for playing.

Gary McCoy - Muhammad just gave a lame excuse to justify his racism. As expected.

Brett Barton - Thug is a term I use.

I'm white.

Thug life.

Muhammad Rasheed - lol

Gary McCoy - @Brett Barton, you haven't been engaged in numerous threads with Muhammad where his racism against whites shines brightly. I have.

Muhammad Rasheed - Yeah, Brett! Know your role!! The White Guy has proclaimed it so!!

Muhammad Rasheed - And you better NOT post in here trying to deny his truth!

Muhammad Rasheed - (although since Brett is also white, I wonder if their Perfect Truths will cancel each other out...?)

Muhammad Rasheed - (sorry, i'm not an expert on the science behind white superiority powers)

Muhammad Rasheed - Notice how I explained the status post for him, yet The White Guy simply proclaimed I meant something different using the force of his amazing White Powers, and he fully expects what he said to be the Truth?

That's some strong ju-ju...

Muhammad Rasheed - hahahahaha

Muhammad Rasheed - Do it again, Gary.

Muhammad Rasheed - Say something.

Muhammad Rasheed - (i wonder if his eyes glow red like Jesse Custer's...?)

Muhammad Rasheed

Muhammad Rasheed - O_O

Muhammad Rasheed - hahahahahaha

Crystal Hubbard - It's tiresome, seeing people trot out the ol' statistics on the percentage of blacks on food stamps. Trot out the stats showing the reasons why a greater percentage of minorities are on public assistance. It isn't because minorities are lazier or less intelligent than other racial groups -- although I'm sure there are stats to "prove" that as well. They come from the same places as the stats showing the percentages of minorities on public assistance and crime rates...

Muhammad Rasheed - Honestly, I think my very favorite part is whenever black people express that they are tired of institutional racist shit, they get called racists. lol They don't lynch anybody, prevent anybody from getting a job because of their skin color... none of that. But just getting ANGRY at traditional racism somehow makes me a racist. 

I guess in some fantasyland, where people live under the twisted illusion that if society never actually talks about it, it magically makes you a racist if you do. Not the asshole threatening to beat up black kids everyday, or the asshole that said the black kid learned to dance in the fucking jungle, no.

The one that got mad at that behavior was the racist. Curious.

Muhammad Rasheed - Proclaim some more Truth, Gary, I want to see if your super White guy powers make your eyes glow red.

Do it.

Brett Barton - Gary, I don't know you from Adam 

Muhammad Rasheed, on the other hand, I know him quite well and vice versa.

I'm a southern white male from Tennessee, he is a black man from Michiganistan.

Aside from the color of our skin, religious belief, and accent... we are pretty much the same person.

We are equally "racist" by that I mean we point and pick at each other's race, current tension, etc..

I wouldn't consider either of us actually "racist" however there are people that would. Typically I would call those people idiots. 

However, I don't want to offend someone or take an uneducated guess with the present company of the thread.

I'm deviating...

Anything goes in your circle of friends.

I would say Muhammad points out common knowledge or current events to see polar opinions on racial issues. Calling him racist offends me probably more than it does him.

I'm white and this message was approved by blacks of America.

::flashes gang signs::

Just because he doesn't like actions from some whites doesn't make him racist. 

I don't pretend to be a friend of every hoddie wearing thug leaving a convenience store. That doesn't make me racist.

The hate one has in their own heart and the actions they take make them racist.

::Hitler response video ::

Muhammad Rasheed - Brett Barton wrote: "Gary, I don't know you from Adam... Muhammad Rasheed on the other hand I know him quite well and vice versa."

HOW. DARE. YOU. Contradict Gary's all-perfect Truths????

Muhammad Rasheed - Didn't he TELL YOU that we haven't had any conversations like that? HE TOLD YOU!!!!!

With his Super White Guy Voice!!!!!

Muhammad Rasheed - You're an asshole, Brett.

Muhammad Rasheed - Take a bow.

Muhammad Rasheed - Don't be disrespecting Gary like that. Do you HEAR ME?????

Muhammad Rasheed - (i got your back, Gary. Don't worry about it. We know the truth.)

Muhammad Rasheed - YOU said it after-all.

Muhammad Rasheed - lol

Brett Barton - Muhammad wrote: “Didn't he TELL YOU that we haven't had any conversations like that? HE TOLD YOU!!!!!  With his Super White Guy Voice!!!!!”

^Don't you mean his Superior white guy voice^

::white power::

Muhammad Rasheed - yes.

Brett Barton - Race bater^

Muhammad Rasheed - That's what Gary said. Now you're just bitin.'

Muhammad Rasheed - I forgive you though.

Brett Barton - You didn't have a choice, I'm white 

Muhammad Rasheed - DAMN that superior White Power!!!! 

Muhammad Rasheed - i'm sorry. i didn't really mean that.

Brett Barton - It's like a curse really

Muhammad Rasheed - The Most Awesome Curse EVER...

Muhammad Rasheed - You wouldn't think it was a curse if you used it the way Gary does. You have to OWN that shit. Strut around in it with pure cocaine-like privilege, like your feces doesn't have an odor...

Brett Barton - Wait, you're feces has an odor?

Brett Barton - Your*

Muhammad Rasheed - DAMMIT!!!

Brett Barton - Lol on the Freud

Muhammad Rasheed - Stop putting my inferior brownness in my face all the time!

Muhammad Rasheed - see that's why you're an asshole...

Muhammad Rasheed -   >:(

Brett Barton - I'm still giggling at calling you shit

Muhammad Rasheed - Psh. Farrelly Bros. humor.

Muhammad Rasheed - lol

Brett Barton - They are white right? I like them

Muhammad Rasheed - *sigh*

Muhammad Rasheed - I dunno... Maybe your Schwartz is as strong as Gary's...

Muhammad Rasheed - You ARE demonstrating you have a talent for that special kind of douchebaggery...

Muhammad Rasheed - I'll admit I only said that last thing because I saw his big head appear in the Chat function.

Muhammad Rasheed - Do you think he'll still consider that "race baiting?" I figured it was more like "Gary baiting."

Brett Barton - Wait, they might be Jews?

::Hitler response video::

Muhammad Rasheed - What? From my "schwartz' reference? I don't think Gary is Jewish. His rap is more classic W.A.S.P.-ish.

Muhammad Rasheed - What ethnic group does "McCoy" come from? That's Irish or something, right?

Brett Barton - W.A.S.P. As in the 80's hair metal, because I like them also

Muhammad Rasheed - i don't think that's real...

Brett Barton - They existed.

Muhammad Rasheed - Obviously you need to practice your white superiority powers more if you want to be able to just PROCLAIM shit to be true like Gary does.

Muhammad Rasheed - Or maybe he's the real thing, and your people are... uh... you know...

...the ones his people used to feed, um.., cracked corn to when y'all first got off the boat?


Muhammad Rasheed - i don't really wanna say it.

Brett Barton - I'm like a self loathing white supremacist. 

Not that I hate being white or white privilege.

It's just that, with great power comes great responsibility

Muhammad Rasheed - i guess what i'm trying to say is i don't really believe your specific... breed... may actually have those kind of powers.

Muhammad Rasheed - You may be just kind of coasting on Gary's superiority fumes, is what I guess I'm trying to say.

Muhammad Rasheed - "Tennessee" and all.

Brett Barton - Well, I may or may not have been bitten by a radioactive spider

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm just saying. Not to say that it may actually be TRUE, it's just that I'm not really feeling the SCHWARTZ when you talk.

Muhammad Rasheed - Is what I'm saying.

Muhammad Rasheed - Something seems kind of OFF about your particular BRAND, I guess.

Muhammad Rasheed - what I'm saying.

Muhammad Rasheed - *kof*

Brett Barton - My Schwartz comes out after a couple of drinks

Brett Barton - Kinda like N-bombs in heavy traffic

Muhammad Rasheed - hahahaha

Brett Barton - You laugh now, but it's relative

Muhammad Rasheed - That's what I'm saying!

Brett Barton - Notice I didn't say "a relative" Gary probably would have

Muhammad Rasheed - Don't presume to know what a guy like Mr. McCoy would say! You'll only embarrass yourself.

Brett Barton - Didn't you do that earlier?

Muhammad Rasheed - That's different. 

I'm uppity.

Brett Barton - No, wait, that was him

Brett Barton - I got confused

Muhammad Rasheed - SEE???

Muhammad Rasheed - smh

Muhammad Rasheed - Wait! He's back! Sh!!

Muhammad Rasheed - Act normal!

Brett Barton - I'm white, not perfect, well you know what I mean

Muhammad Rasheed - sh!! You gon' get us WHIPPED!!

Muhammad Rasheed - Hi, Gary. Did you come to proclaim something new?

Brett Barton - Nah, you'll get whipped and arrested.... I'll get a time out and then go build a raft and we can float down the Mississippi after I break you out

Muhammad Rasheed - Okay, he's gone.

Muhammad Rasheed - Define "break me out?"

Muhammad Rasheed - (i'm not from TN)

Muhammad Rasheed - It sounds like some fucked up Deliverance shit...

Muhammad Rasheed - No, Brett. 


Muhammad Rasheed - NO!

Brett Barton - It was from a Samuel Clemens book

Muhammad Rasheed - Oh. Finn.

Brett Barton - White Fin and Jim Crow are friends despite differences or something

Muhammad Rasheed - It was a trillion years ago when i read that. Note that there were no superheroes in it.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm not going to remember that.

Muhammad Rasheed - (i remember when parliament wrote flashlight though)

Muhammad Rasheed - Sh!! He's back!!

Muhammad Rasheed - [ties shoes]

Muhammad Rasheed - ♫

Brett Barton - ^thanks^ 

::tips Muhammad::

Muhammad Rasheed - Yalsuh.

Muhammad Rasheed - (sp?)

Brett Barton - ?


Brett Barton - Yiddish

Muhammad Rasheed - Don't be fake just because Gary is watching!

Brett Barton - I'm still laughing about White Fin and Jim Crow

Brett Barton - I'm out for now keep me posted

Muhammad Rasheed - Remember when Yosemite Sam told a disguised Bugs to play one of those negro spirituals? What was Bugs' response?

Muhammad Rasheed - Brett Barton wrote: "I'm still laughing about White Fin and Jim Crow"

Figures. Different classes of white folk only celebrate y'all's own shit. I see you. ass.

Favorite Movie Scenes from Remo Williams - comic strip format

Remo's final line cracks me up every time.  lol

See Also:
The House of Sinanju: Napoleon Hit

AT LAST! The Destroyer Returns to the Comic Pages

Destroyer Comics: Pagination Process

Saturday, February 14, 2015

A Declaration of War

Gary McCoy[shared photo] Deport their parents. Even if they're legal citizens.

Dan Mathewson - La Raza wants to reclaim the American Southwest.

Al Ochsner - Wansum cookies, sucka?

Dan Mathewson - Are they made out of girl scouts? Girl Scout Cookies

Nancy Landeros - LA RAZA, INC. is starting recruitment at an early age

Bob Lang - Groan.....

Muhammad Rasheed - You're questioning whether teaching children that human lives matter is the right message? Really? How is this a serious question? 

Are cookies and sewing more important than human life?

Christopher Kershaw - These parents should be dragged out in the street an shot.

Muhammad Rasheed - "How dare you teach your kids that it's not right to kill black people???" *POW! POW! POW!*

Muhammad Rasheed - (old school ethics)

Christopher Kershaw - They're glorifying the black panthers, a group of violent, drug dealing, anti-American scumbags.

Christopher Kershaw - And murderers too.

Muhammad Rasheed - The Black Panthers were a group that were formed to protect the black communities from violence they faced both internal & external, and provided food, and financial help to the poorest families. They believed in self-defense in the face of a traditional violent system that was very much anti-Black people for centuries. Some of the comments underneath that post with the kid dancing on the train reveal old attitudes about my people never die, and this is exactly the spirit of attitude that birthed the Black panthers to begin with.

Like any other group, there are members among them that probably were drug dealers/addicts. Some probably lived and witnessed experienced that no doubt even made them feel anti-American. But that doesn't represent the group itself. 

Should I vilify all American Police officers as a group because of the bad apples among them that give the group itself a bad name? Would it be fair to ignore the reason why we have cops, and the good they were formed to provide? This is what you are doing here.

Teresa Roberts Logan - What Muhamed said.

Christopher Kershaw - They were a group of racists who wanted to blame everyone but themselves for their problems.

Teresa Roberts Logan - ^Riiiiiiight. Who's using his EASY button?

Muhammad Rasheed - Christopher Kershaw wrote: "They were a group of racists who wanted to blame everyone but themselves for their problems."

The Black Panthers were formed in the wake of the assassination era in the mid-1960s, when my people were struggling to attain basic human and civil rights legally. This was during a time when the country was still experiencing growing pains from jim crow's stench. Did the blacks perform the jim crow system on themselves?

Christopher Kershaw - So Jim Crow segregaion gave them the right to commit mutiple felonies including drug dealing and extorting protection money from local Oakland bsinesses?

Christopher Kershaw - Not to mention the torture and murder of rival gang members as well as dissenting members of their own criminal gang of thugs.

Roderick McKie - Of course, Christopher Kershaw, your government, over decades, has supported, funded, backed, encouraged, armed, and even used tax-payers money to buy drugs to fund arms smuggling, as it allegedly supported, and supports all the Civil Rights the Black Panthers were asking for. I suppose if you vote the 'thugs' in, you don't consider them to be so, eh?

Christopher Kershaw - Are you retarded?

Teresa Roberts Logan - He makes good points, Christopher. I know that we seem to give our government a pass when it comes to torture, guns, drugs, illegal activities of all sorts . . . and when it's easy to target a specific group we deem too "militant," we do . . .

Muhammad Rasheed - Christopher Kershaw wrote: "So Jim Crow segregaion gave them the right to commit mutiple felonies..."

If those "multiple felonies" involved defying jim crow laws that denied them basic human/civil rights, sure. You always have a right to fight against fundamentally unjust laws. Remember, the Black Panther Party was formed as a direct response from war declared on my people, with all of our top, most effective leaders assassinated less than a decade before. Don't you yourself not believe in arming yourself against a government you feel is unjust towards you? Well, why do you feel my people don't have a right to do so? Why are the rules suddenly different for me when my history in America is far more humbling than what the earliest white Americans dealt with against the Brits?

Christopher Kershaw wrote: "...including drug dealing and extorting protection money from local Oakland bsinesses?"

American police officers also have a history of illegal dirty dealings. Again, should I also condemn the entire group because of those bad apples, ignoring the good they were formed to do? Why do you have such a problem seeing obvious parallels in favor of your preferred stance to vilify blacks no matter what?

What do you call that tendency, please?

Christopher Kershaw - Why do you support a group that is at best the black equivalent of the klan?

Muhammad Rasheed - The Klan spent over a century hanging black men, women and children from trees and burning them alive.

When did the Black Panthers do that to your people, ever, that they would be considered equal to that group in ANY way? 

Chris, I know you and your bar room buddies have grown used to vilifying the BP over many years because you are offended by the idea of a group getting fed up with a violent and oppressive majority -- even though the exact same situation conjures patriotism in you when it is compared to early white Americans vs British rule -- but try for once to put yourself in someone else's shoes and stop seeing everyone who isn't your specific demographic as the bad guy, please.

Muhammad Rasheed - Tell me this: If the roles were reversed, and the Black Panthers had been formed first and had a century-long history of lynching whites and burning religious symbols on YOUR lawns, and the KKK was formed in self-defense... would you feel if I treated both groups the exact same and acted like the Klan were just a bunch of thugs stirring up trouble for nothing? Would that seem fair to you?

Christopher Kershaw - You seem to think I am against black equality. I'm just opposed to making heroes out of domestic terrorists.

Muhammad Rasheed - Why is it okay for whites to bear arms against perceived oppression, but when blacks do it over well-documented real historical terrorism and oppression, they are considered thugs and bad guys?

Muhammad Rasheed - Christopher Kershaw wrote: "You seem to think I am against black equality. I'm just opposed to making heroes out of domestic terrorists."

Have you ever heard the saying: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?" What does that mean to you? During the era of lynching and jim crow, when the KKK was literally terrorizing and killing my people to "keep them in their place," do you really think arming myself in organized groups was an unreasonable response?

Christopher Kershaw - The klan was a bunch of thugs stirring up trouble for no reason execpt their own narrow-minded racism. The black panthers used past acts of racial violence as an excuse to commit violent crimes, ironically mostly against the very people they claimed to be helping.

Muhammad Rasheed - The klan stirred up trouble because they wanted to protect that racially divided way of life that their own people received so much favor for. The Black Panthers formed from violent acts that were still going on even then, but especially from the deaths of the '60s black leaders the community were still morning. 

Are you talking about this new black panther party committing violence? Where's your link?

Christopher Kershaw - I'm talikng about the original drug dealing, extortionist, murdering, black nationalist panthers founded in Oakland in the 60s. The ones who tortured and murdered Alex Rackley on direct orders from Bobby Seale.

Muhammad Rasheed - All I can can find on this new black panther party... in addition to the original BP members denouncement of them... is that they enjoy public confrontations with the press to build up controversy as a quick flash in the moment. Where is your link to all the crimes they are supposed to have committed?

Muhammad Rasheed - Christopher Kershaw wrote: "I'm talikng about the original drug dealing, extortionist, murdering, black nationalist panthers founded in Oakland in the 60s. The ones who tortured and murdered Alex Rackley on direct orders from Bobby Seale."

Okay, here's my problem with this: the US government, operating through Hoover's FBI, are officially on record as having "infiltration, perjury, police harassment, and many other tactics designed to undermine Panther leadership, incriminate party members, discredit and criminalize the Party, and drain the organization of resources and manpower," for the sole purpose of keeping the black community from being empowered and independent, and they were 100% successful in these efforts. The gov deliberately sabotaged them and criminalized their name and you fell for it, despite the facts of the matter being available. It's not a conspiracy theory. (see: Final report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, United States)

Despite the facts of history, you WANT to believe blacks are "thugs" and have no right to human rights. This is actually painful, Christopher.

Christopher Kershaw - I don't believe blacks are thugs. I believe the black panthers were, and in their current incarnation are, thugs.

Muhammad Rasheed - The BP weren't thugs. They were actually doing good for their communities and were deliberately sabotaged and destroyed by Hoover's FBI. The BP -- and the black community -- lost the war.

Muhammad Rasheed - Christopher Kershaw wrote: "You seem to think I am against black equality."

It's your refusal to see history from the other guy's position that gives me that impression. It means you don't care.

Muhammad Rasheed - Every other ethnic group was allowed to get their legs under them and become economically empowered in their own communities except mine. Our leaders slaughtered, our grassroots organizations sabotaged and destroyed. 

The feeble and ineffective leaders that are left? You make fun of them. My broken and smashed communities left in the half-finished position they were in when Hoover destroyed our organization? You mock and blame it on me. 

We WERE fixing our own problems and my own government sabotaged our efforts, and you make fun of me for it. And you say that racism is a myth, and that I'm "playing the race card" when I point out these historical wrongs that have never stopped.

Christopher Kershaw - I won't disagree that leftist policies instituted by our government have done no favors for the back community. Government welfare programs and public education have created a permanent underclass dependent on the government for their livelyhood.

Christopher Kershaw - And as true as it is for poor urbal blacks, it is also so for poor rural whites.

Muhammad Rasheed - I know you demonstrate that you have no issue seeing the sabotage in your own communities, but when you look at me it's different. I see that stuff on Gary's Timeline. How you all said that one kid "learned his skills in the jungle," and a lot of other things often said. 

I'll tell you this: It's very difficult not to get bitter and feel hatred over hypocritical standards, and the continuous vilification of my people while pretending I'M the one that's the racist somehow.

Muhammad Rasheed - Watching how you all operate as standard procedure makes me very angry, and very tired.

Muhammad Rasheed - Tell me how racism will ever be cured if your proposed solution is for me to ignore the evils done to me? How is that supposed to work exactly?

Muhammad Rasheed - lol I know I'm putting a lot on you, acting like you are the official spokesman for your entire people. lol

Muhammad Rasheed - Don't worry about it, it's just a rant.

Muhammad Rasheed - I don't expect anything to actually change. It wasn't lost on me that the election of the first Black US President actually brought out the very WORST in you, as a casual glance at Gary's and his brother's cartoons will reveal.

Christopher Kershaw - It's not about him being black. If Kamala the Ugandan Giant were running as a republican with a platform that would make Bill Buckley proud, I'd support him 100%.

Muhammad Rasheed - I fully expect you to start lynching us again. I really do. And again you'll find someway to justify why it's okay, which is apparently easy for you. Gary thinks it's perfectly reasonable to beat up a black kid for dancing on that train after-all.

Christopher Kershaw - And just for reference, this is a picture of Kamala:

Muhammad Rasheed - Kamala was tool for Vince McMahon and did PRECISELY what he was told. So of COURSE you would support him. 

But if he was on his own program, and sought to use his influence to empower his people? The FBI would destroy him and tell you any kind of story that you would eagerly believe.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm 44 years old, Chris, and grew up on the WWF. Why wouldn't I know who Kamala was? He had his legs amputated from diabetes recently, I believe.

Christopher Kershaw - He did. Very sad.

Muhammad Rasheed - Yeah, that was a hard life. Most of the superstars from that era are dead now. The incredible Hulk is one of the few hold outs.

Muhammad Rasheed - After all these years he's still my favorite. Call it the patriot in me. lol

Christopher Kershaw - We have wresling a couple of times a year at my Elks lodge. We had Greg "The Hammer" Valentine once, and he looked awful.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm sure.

Christopher Kershaw - We had Tony Atlas once and he was still in tremendous shape, even at almost 70.

Gary McCoy – Muhammad wrote: "Gary thinks it's perfectly reasonable to beat up a black kid for dancing on that train after-all." 

Your necessity to see everything as a racial issue, even a joke about punching annoying teenagers using mass transit as their jungle gym, is troubling.

Muhammad Rasheed - Your penchant for "joking" about attacking black youth is also troubling. In kind of a Zimmerman way.

I guess that makes us even, hm?

Muhammad Rasheed - Christopher Kershaw wrote: "We had Tony Atlas once and he was still in tremendous shape, even at almost 70."

I guess that proves that Atlas wasn't juicing then. Good for him.

Gary McCoy - @Muhammad... you're the one that brought race into it. I simply saw them as annoying teenagers flailing about a subway car. But to you, as always, it was about an evil whitey looking to lynch some blacks. Get help.

Muhammad Rasheed - Well, if I ever come across one of those comments from you that ISN'T directed towards blacks, I promise I'll change my mind about that. Deal?

Gary McCoy - Well let me help you out. Start changing...

Muhammad Rasheed - Slow down. You stop being racist first. I'll give you a month.

Muhammad Rasheed - I know, I know...

Somehow you're not racist because you've used your white privilege to bed every exotic brown beauty in the world. Don't take it personal.

Muhammad Rasheed - We'll see how you do by the end of the month. 


Gary McCoy - It's good to know I'll be being monitored by a racist himself. Keep a pencil sharpener handy. You're going to need it.

Muhammad Rasheed - Notice how nowhere on my Timeline am I threatening to beat up any white kids? Yet somehow I'm the one that's the racist because the White Guy proclaimed it so from the privilege of his superior white force? hahaha

Muhammad Rasheed - (it's kinda like a super power really...)

Gary: "I pronounce you as a RACIST!!"

MRasheed: "Me??? Wait... how am I the racist when you keep threatening to beat up black kids and calling them monk--!"

Gary: "SILENCE!!!"

Bob Lang - Maybe Rasheed should be more worried about the thousands of black babies aborted (with no end in sight). Oh that's right, killing black babies doesn't matter.

Mitchell Berger - Oh my gosh! Young black and hispanic girls with their fists raised in the air! Clearly some over-reaction is called for! But Cliven Bundy's followers point loaded weapons at law enforcement officers so he can keep being a deadbeat and they're heroes? Another Brietbart-to-Fox-to-the hot-and-bothered-crowd story.

Muhammad Rasheed - Bob Lang wrote: "Maybe Rasheed should be more worried about the thousands of black babies aborted (with no end in sight). Oh that's right, killing black babies doesn't matter."

This is clearly related to the topic. Don't you see if my own efforts to organize and empower my communities are sabotaged, it leaves me vulnerable to items just like this one, as well as a for-profit Prison Industrial Complex? Bob, tell me how is "black babies don't matter" unrelated to the "black lives don't matter" message those little girls in the link above are advocating?

You are very weak in your efforts at misdirection. Try harder.

Gary McCoy - @Mitchell, at least Cliven Bundy didn't use children to advance his cause -- a ploy often employed by the liberal left. In fact, it's just this cheap tactic that ticks me off. When it comes to the liberal's, there's no cause too selfish not to bring in the kiddies and put them to work. Whether it's filling their mouths with f-bombs for feminism, or making them little "Black Panthers" (or in the case of Nancy Pelosi, using her 5 year-old grandson to push for war with Syria.), liberals are the top casting agents when it comes child labor for the sake of advocacy. Hell, if they can't kill 'em in the womb, they'll make them pay the price by working overtime.

Martin Roules - Sure, they thought of this crap all by themselves ... Why didn't their parents draw the line and say NO?

Muhammad Rasheed - Gary McCoy wrote: " least Cliven Bundy didn't use children to advance his cause ..."

Seriously, Gary, do you ever get tired of being full of shit, or is that part of your brand?

Everything You Need to Know About the Long Fight Between Cliven Bundy and the Federal Government

Gary McCoy - Oopsie. My mistake, Muhammad. I guess that just leaves you as a race-baiting attention seeker. Quite the step up.

Muhammad Rasheed - [stopped reading @ "Oopsie. My mistake"]


Muhammad Rasheed - All cartoonists are attention seekers. That's not an insult. lol

Mason Mastroianni - Children will, sadly, always be subjected to the social priorities of their parents, including religion, and those inclinations, agreeable to some, will offend others.

Deporting parents on the grounds of offense to another's social priorities will leave the population of the country somewhere in the neighborhood of zero.

See Also: "In Whitest Day..."

Friday, February 13, 2015

FANTASY MATCH: George Foreman vs Larry Holmes

Arthur Ballinger - Foreman by ko

Kyle Richard - Larry Holmes by beautiful boxing exhibition

Kev Dawson - I'd have to lean toward big George

Kwamé Burñey - Holmes

Neil Heffernan - holmes for sure, jab jab move!!!! drown him in deep water as the rounds go on!!!

Cam Beaton - Holmes. Best jab ever

Mirza Muhammad Arslan Azam - Holmes

Bertuccelli Jonathan - Holmes

Mel Turner - Larry Holmes via unanimous decision.

Bertuccelli Jonathan - Holmes had the chin, guts , jab and quick monster right hand behind it. He was not afraid , gutsy and smart

Brian Leonard Ham - Foreman ko

Lewis Bruthadarkness Lindsey Jr - Holmes that jab and technical skills would be hard for Foreman

Tulsiim Kiapalanexw - Larry had a good jab and worked off it well...Foreman couldnt go past 4rounds for a while there...Larry takes it!

Lee Wybrow - Larry Holmes wins by points or late stoppage

Tony Stewart - I actually asked big George this, he said Holmes by that jab would've beat him~

Daniel Kehinde Coker - Holmes on points .

Patrick Merkel - The same result as Holmes-Shavers

Mal Milne - Foreman in 3 or less

Muhammad Rasheed - Holmes takes it with classic boxing, for a possible stoppage in the late rounds.

Slaven Ajanovic - Stoppage? LOL! Holmes stop Foreman?? Are you nuts? Foreman went 10 rounds with both his eyes closed against Stewart, who hit harder than Holmes.

Muhammad Rasheed - What does that have to do with anything? Boxers perform differently against other boxers all the time. Look at Frazier vs Foreman compared to Ali vs Foreman.

Muhammad Rasheed - On paper, according to the skills they've demonstrated, I call it the way I analyzed it. I think you are nuts for responding that way. What's wrong with you?

Slaven Ajanovic - Foreman could take punishment as well as anyone else. Holmes would never dare to be so offensive against him that he would have to in order to stop him.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm pretty sure I said "classic boxing," and not "offensive." Classic boxing is staying on your toes and using your defense, not slugging it out.

Slaven Ajanovic - What's wrong with me? This is the internet, lol. And 2015-thats whats wrong with me.

Muhammad Rasheed - Touché. lol

Slaven Ajanovic - And you think he could stop Big George that way? Ok...your opinion.

Muhammad Rasheed - Well, Internet or not, let's keep it civil. Sharing opinions on a fantasy fight that will never happen is supposed to be fun. Relax with that stuff.

Slaven Ajanovic - I agree. I was a bit rash...or is it brash?  Same thing.

Muhammad Rasheed - Holmes is one of the all time great champion heavyweights. Foreman has been embarrassed by being taken into the later rounds by classic boxers before. That wouldn't be impossible. And it is possible he could be stopped from an accumulation of punishment combined with exhaustion, which is how he was stopped during the "Rumble in the Jungle" event. Logical analysis of past performances.

Slaven Ajanovic - I'm not hugging Foreman, but I don't like Holmes, especially after what he recently said about Wlad Klitschko. I always found him arrogant and annoying. That said, he was an excellent boxer, no doubt. Just not as good as he himself thought, lol. Ali would beat him.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm aware of Holmes' history and how certain demographics among fight fans feel about him. I'm only referring to the skills he's demonstrated within the squared circle.

Slaven Ajanovic - OK, thats settled then.

Patrick Merkel - LOl all black people love Holmes? Since when

Patrick Merkel - Holmes was an unpopular champion who never understood life isn't fair.

Slaven Ajanovic - Yea, like when he lost the second time against Spinks he went berserk. YOU CAN KISS MY BLACK ASS! KISS WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE! Hahaha, what a nut.

Muhammad Rasheed - Patrick wrote: "LOl all black people love Holmes? Since when"


What do you mean?

Patrick Merkel - You said certain demographics of fight fans didn't like Holmes. I don't think most demographics of fans white and black cared much for Larry back then

Muhammad Rasheed - Slaven wrote: "Yea, like when he lost the second time against Spinks he went berserk."

I think Patrick is referring to the unfairness of being treated poorly because he became champion after a popular champion left.

Slaven Ajanovic - Only against Cooney did everyone white hate him, lol.

Muhammad Rasheed - Patrick wrote: "You said certain demographics of fight fans didn't like Holmes."

Does "demographic" only refer to 'race' now? I must've missed that memo. I did type "demographicS" plural. Or did I dream that part?

Patrick Merkel - @Muhammad… that and the fact that Larry has never understood why Ali could say things and be loved for it and when Larry Holmes said the same he was vilified. LIFE ISN'T FAIR

Muhammad Rasheed - ^Both of those items are directly related.

Muhammad Rasheed - They treated him that way because he wasn't Ali, and it WASN’T fair. Plus Holmes didn't have the kind of personality that could handle the world stage; he took everything personally and became bitter for it.

Slaven Ajanovic - Yea, I think it only made him more unpopular that he just couldn't accept he would never be like Ali.

Bruce Winfield - Holmes would have to fight a perfect fight to avoid George for 15 rds , Foreman cut the ring down well and Larry was brave . George will catch up to Holmes drop him and finish the fight ! larry was not Ali and could not use his blueprint !

Slaven Ajanovic - Even Ali barely survived against Foreman.

Patrick Merkel - Holmes would have no trouble beating Foreman IMO. Holmes always beat sluggers - Tyson excepted

Slaven Ajanovic - Beating him? Maybe not. Stopping him? Definitely.

Patrick Merkel - @Muhammad… that is the most perfect summation of Holmes I have seen written. You said it much better than I.

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "larry was not Ali and could not use his blueprint !"

Holmes had his own version of "the blueprint" and used it to great effect. He was certainly a better skilled fighter than Foreman.

Slaven Ajanovic - Lets not forget Holmes got a gift against Witherspoon and Carl Williams and also had some trouble with the crude Berbick.

Patrick Merkel - Those weren't sluggers

Slaven Ajanovic - Berbick was.

Patrick Merkel - A lot of fighters had trouble with Berbick.

Patrick Merkel - He was big with an iron chin

Muhammad Rasheed - Slaven wrote: "Even Ali barely survived against Foreman."

Ali knew exactly what he was doing against Foreman and called it before the fight ("Experience will enable me to defeat George Foreman!") even though he led their camp to think he planned to dance all night. All Foreman had was his great strength and punching power; even Tyson fans know that is not enough to defeat a highly-skilled (and tough) opponent.

Bruce Winfield - Larry could fight , but he wasnt elusive enough to avoid George who if he got you hurt he finished you unlike Shavers and Snipes !

Slaven Ajanovic - What do you mean EVEN TYSON FANS? You calling Tyson fans stupid?

Muhammad Rasheed - Patrick wrote: "Holmes always beat sluggers - Tyson excepted"

Yes, I watched that fight the other night, and Holmes' age showed definitely. I would've loved to see them do that one when each was at their best.

Jerry Landry - Anyway Holmes beats big george

Muhammad Rasheed - Slaven wrote: "What do you mean EVEN TYSON FANS? You calling Tyson fans stupid?"

lol I'M a Tyson fan. It means that we recognize that, even though Tyson never lost his legendary punching power, he wasn't as good a fighter when he stopped using the actual skills taught him by Cuss & Rooney. In fact, he was garbage without them.

Bruce Winfield - Ali did plan to dance and move , but George cut the ring off and forced the fight to the ropes where Ali improvised and outlasted George , Holmes would not be capable of such a feat ! He did not possess the chin ofAli

Slaven Ajanovic - That was the truth...when Rooney went, Tyson's skills went with him.

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "Ali did plan to dance and move..."

No. The very first thing Ali did was step to him with an overhand right and tied him up. His whole strategy in those early rounds was to piss foreman off by staying in his face talking shit.

Slaven Ajanovic - Hey Muhammad, you aren't by any chance from Philadelphia?  Since you know so much about boxing.   ;)

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm from Detroit.

Slaven Ajanovic - Ah, Kronk city!

Slaven Ajanovic[thumbs up]

Muhammad Rasheed - We've had a pretty decent champ or two...

Slaven Ajanovic - Yeah...and Hearns is one of my alltime favorites.

Slaven Ajanovic - MOTOR CITY of the best boxing nicknames ever.

John Brenni - Holmes . stays out of range of big George's bombs . outpoint or late round K.O.

Bruce Winfield - Before that fight my cousin the late "Bundini" Brown took me to Deer Lake Pa. where we watched Ali's early preparation for the fight prior to leaving for Africa , Ali clearly wanted that fight in the center of the ring , George was a master at cutting the ring off and forced the fight to the ropes where Ali did the unimaginable !

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "Ali clearly wanted that fight in the center of the ring"

Nooo... He wanted to fight the way he demonstrated during 'Rumble,' but he wanted the Foreman camp to think (and train) as if he planned to dance. So why would he show you otherwise?

Bruce Winfield - I am there with his cornerman at the time of the fight and had personally watched Ali train many times , the rope a dope was an improvisation on the spot by Ali , when he employed the strategy his corner went crazy screaming to move away from the ropes and were afraid he would get stopped , not the actions of a corner who planned to be on the ropes!

Muhammad Rasheed - @Bruce... Meanwhile, when the cameras weren't around and there was no audience, he trained in tying up and infighting.

Patrick Merkel - One bad thing about that Foreman fight for Ali was it made him actually believe he would beat Holmes in 1980.

Muhammad Rasheed - Well, his greedy, bloody-sucking entourage made him believe it.

Muhammad Rasheed - They were afraid their "Greatest ATM" would stop giving out the free handouts.

Patrick Merkel - I think he would have fired them all and fought Holmes anyway. But he had some bad hangers on for sure. ATM is right

Bruce Winfield - Ali always tied up fighters , he was the master of the clinch ! That was nothing new , however laying on the ropes allowing Foreman to punch himself out was totally improvised ! @Muhammad , I was part of a small circle of people who spent time at Ali's training camp in Deer Lake , no cameras and no audience . I also spent some years at Miami's 5th street gym training with Sidney Walker .

Patrick Merkel - only Pachecho had any convictions at all and quit in 1977

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "Ali always tied up fighters , he was the master of the clinch ! That was nothing new , however laying on the ropes allowing Foreman to punch himself out was totally improvised!"

Bruce, that doesn't describe how he performed during that fight at all; Ali was VERY aggressive, and was really beating up on Foreman during those 8 rounds. Repeating the "laying on the ropes allowing Foreman to punch himself out" legend only reveals you didn't analyze the fight. Frazier was the color commentator during ‘Rumble,’ and even he -- EARLY! -- remarked that Ali was beating up Foreman in the clinches.

Muhammad Rasheed - It doesn't matter where you spent time and who you met if you are only going to regurgitate the starry-eyed myths of the lay fans.

Muhammad Rasheed - Patrick wrote: "I think he would have fired them all and fought Holmes anyway."

Nah, he was really tired of fighting by the end. He had to really hype himself up to fight in the post-Manilla days. Ali would've CHEERFULLY went on speaking tours to colleges again and lived an easier life on his celebrity. It was his entourage that convinced him to "Do it again, Champ!"

Bruce Winfield - I watched that fight on closed circuit at MSG , and I dont know what fight you watched or where were you whenthe fight happened , I can tell by your condescending remarks that now your arguement is deteriorating .......cut it out !

Muhammad RasheedMY argument is deteriorating? lol  99% of your argument is composed of celebrity name-dropping.

Get your boxing analysis game up.

Bruce Winfield - Name one celebrity , you clearly get upset when someone disagrees with you on a fight you only read about and experienced on you tube with a rear view window analysis !

Bruce Winfield - Were you even around in 1974 ?

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "Name one celebrity..."

Bruce wrote: "Before that fight my cousin the late "Bundini" Brown..."

celebrity - a famous or well-known person.

Muhammad Rasheed - Go to bed, Bruce, you're drunk.

And apparently old.

Bruce Winfield - He is my cousin and yes I am older than you . When a person resorts to insults it shows your immaturity and lack of a credible arguement

Muhammad Rasheed - lol No, it shows that I have very little interest in your "I name drop and I'm old" technique of boxing analysis. It lacks insight as well as demonstrates you are looking for some cheap form of 5th rate celebrity-by-association. I'm not interested. If you don't plan to contribute anything worthwhile, how about addressing someone else with that stuff instead of me? There's a lad.

Bruce Winfield - Cut it out , and stop being so emotional ! We just dont agree , you dont have to respond to my opinion !

Muhammad Rasheed - ^You see all of these exclamation marks you've peppered your post with? That's what 'emotion' looks like on the Internet.

Muhammad Rasheed At this point I think the problem you actually have with me -- since you were so kind as to reveal you actually hung out in the Ali camp -- was my expressed disdain for his leeching, blood-sucking entourage.

Stung, didn't it?

Bruce Winfield - Dude ,I am not an english teacher and your words convey emotion to me , not punctuation marks.....

Muhammad Rasheed - I just figured out where all the 'emotion' is REALLY coming from. Perhaps you should stop typing before you embarrass yourself further?

Bruce Winfield - I was never a part of his entourage , so no !

Muhammad Rasheed - Your cousin was.

Muhammad Rasheed - O_O

Bruce Winfield - I would have been honored to part of Ali's entourage !

Muhammad Rasheed - lol Of course you would've. "Do it again, Champ! My mortgage payment is due!"

Bruce Winfield - How do you know what went on in Ali's entourage ?Sounds like female "gossip" to me .

Muhammad Rasheed - "You're STILL the greatest, Champ! You'll be the first 70+ year old heavyweight champ in history!"

Bruce Winfield - How long have you been menustrating ?

Muhammad Rasheed - I win, Bruce. Go away now.

Bruce Winfield - That is your goal , to "win" ? Pathetic........

Youri Aramin Kemp - Holmes. George cant box...

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "That is your goal , to 'win?' Pathetic........ "

I'm a boxing fan. Of course I want to win. What is YOUR goal? To receive an "I Tried" certificate of participation?

You must be from California.

Bruce Winfield - No one wins , you have your opinion I have mine ! Thats it are acting silly .wtf

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce wrote: "No one wins..."

That's what everybody says when they lose. Go away now, you bother me.

Bruce Winfield - Here is an excerpt from the fight : Ali opened the fight moving and scoring with right crosses to Foreman's head. Then, beginning in the second round—and to the consternation of his corner—Ali retreated to the ropes and invited Foreman to hit him while covering up, clinching and counter-punching—all while verbally taunting Foreman. ("Is that all you got, George? They told me you could hit.") The move, which would later become known as the "Rope-A-Dope", so violated conventional boxing wisdom—letting one of the hardest hitters in boxing strike at will—that at ringside writer George Plimpton thought the fight had to be fixed.[32] Foreman, increasingly angered, threw punches that were deflected and didn't land squarely. Midway through the fight, as Foreman began tiring, Ali countered more frequently and effectively with punches and flurries, which electrified the pro-Ali crowd. In the eighth round, Ali dropped an exhausted Foreman with a combination at center ring; Foreman failed to make the count. Against the odds, and amidst pandemonium in the ring, Ali had regained the title by knockout.

Muhammad Rasheed - An excerpt from whom? How about pull the fight up on YouTube and analyze it yourself? geez...

Muhammad Rasheed - Do it, and tell me the very first blow Ali lands.

Bruce Winfield - You are an immature keyboard warrior talking crap on the internet , the type thats quiet in person !

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm quiet now, too. I'm the only one in this room...

Muhammad Rasheed - Did you go to YouTube yet?

Bruce Winfield - I allready told you how I saw the fight and the general consensus is the same !

Muhammad Rasheed - Then why are you repeating the myth instead of what ACTUALLY happened? Watch it right now and tell me the very first blow Ali lands.

Bruce Winfield - If you were in a room with me you would be quiet as well !

Muhammad Rasheed - Bruce, seriously, I'm not interested in your sheeple foolishness. Go be old somewhere else since you don't (can't) have a real boxing analysis discussion. Go on now.

Bruce Winfield - I hear no boxing talk from you only weak insults

Muhammad Rasheed - I think you like it...

Bruce Winfield - No , you like it !

Muhammad Rasheed - Aw. You're adorable. Is that the height of your NY capping technique? Cute.

Well, I do. I can beat up on you all day, but I'm busy and you're dragging down the thread for me.

Tony Stewart - So the argument is whether Ali tied up it not on purpose and who was winning in the clinches?

Bruce Winfield - You not doing shit !

Muhammad Rasheed - It was fun while we were talking about the fantasy match, but then here you came with your goofy, "Hey, everyone! I'm Bundini Brown's cousin!"

Muhammad Rasheed - "Der-Pee-DERP!"

Bruce Winfield - Such a female type

Muhammad Rasheed - @Tony… Bruce believes that the rope-a-dope consisted of Ali "laying on the ropes doing nothing while Foreman tired himself out" the way the myth relates the story-legend, and believes it was an impromptu move after Ali intended to dance all night like he was still named "Clay."

Muhammad Rasheed - I say it was always Ali's strategy to infight on the ropes while beating up on Foreman (naturally the ref would stop the fight if Ali was "doing nothing"), a strategy he hid from Foreman's corner so they would train their fighter a different way from what he actually intended. I say Ali had complete control over the fight, and beat the younger man on experience the way he told the press at an earlier press conference. #BoxingIsAThinkingMansGame 

Kyle Richard - Cat fight.

Tony Stewart - Personally I think you're both right and both wrong~

Bruce Winfield - @Kyle... he 's the cat trying to scratch me with with his "nails"

Tony Stewart - Right cause unknown to everyone but Ali, that was his plan to make George tire out, his antics outside the ring all of that wasn't enough for Ali, he needed to work on George during the fight cause he a beast. So even Angelo was befuddled cause he was imploring Ali to stay off the ropes. Ali had his own game plan and he did it on the job!

Tony Stewart - Both wrong cause all this back and forth is aggravating to read on a thread about a fantasy mix up between Foreman and Holmes, not Foreman and Ali, geez. Now kith and make up!

Bruce Winfield - lol

Muhammad Rasheed - According to Thomas Hauser's biography, Ali was training on infighting and improving in exactly what he displayed during the event. Dundee didn't believe in that strategy, and feared Foreman's power, so when it came time for it he screamed to forget that stuff and "just be safe!"

Muhammad Rasheed - Naturally he didn't want Ali to do any of that experimental shit when it was time for the excitement of the real thing.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm not kithing Bruce, he's from New York. I'll get ebola or something else crazy.

Muhammad Rasheed - (plus he's old)

Muhammad Rasheed - It certainly wasn't the only time Ali and his corner disagreed. There's a reason Angelo always described Ali's style as: "He did everything wrong, but it turned out right."

Muhammad Rasheed - Because Ali NEVER listened to his corner.

Bruce Winfield - See how he expresses his feminine side in a discussion on a computer !!

Tony Stewart - Of course he didn't. It ain't like Ali never trained at all on infighting, but for this fight he was focused on beating George up in ways that Angelo felt compromised him so he wasn't feeling it. He went on the offensive from the first round and kept to his own game plan but to everyone it seemed as tho he was letting George maul him to certain doom. That said, Holmes wins that 50 year matchup they woulda had if they had fought that fight~

Muhammad Rasheed - Tony wrote: "He went on the offensive from the first round and kept to his own game plan but to everyone it seemed as tho he was letting George maul him to certain doom."

Exactly. Everyone else thought that the ONLY way he would win was to dance and keep that monster at the end of his jab, and he allowed everyone to think that, too.

Muhammad Rasheed - The true experts who actually knew what they were looking at -- like Frazier -- saw his strategy for what it was. For the lay fans, like the reporters and Bruce here... it looked like he pulled off a magic trick.

Bruce Winfield - Sorry Muhammad Rasheed , been in boxing a long time cant keep my name out your mouth why is that ? Like i said if you were in my presence you would be very quiet , so cut keyboard homo warrior shit and move on......this is pointless . We all have opinions and boxing is subjective !

Muhammad Rasheed - Boxing isn't subjective, it's a science. To people who have no idea how it functions it's magically subjective.

Muhammad Rasheed - I know you're hanging around struggling to figure out how you can turn this around and score a victory. Not gonna happen. First of all, your "playin' the dozens" technique is circa 1962 or whatever, and reads like I'm watching an old episode of Fat Albert & the Cosby Kids.

Second of all, get your intellect game up, Mr. Personal Trainer.

Tony Stewart - Geez...

See Also: