Muhammad Rasheed - Where's the ayah in the Qur'an that backs up the “anti-drawing representational pictures” hadith? Throw down your rod and show me your argument!
As I recall, in Surah 96, Allah says He taught man the use of the pen. What do we do with pens? Why it turns out we write and draw with them to record knowledge and give messages. Imagine that? The written word often evolved from more complex pictograms/hieroglyphs, and SURELY Allah speaketh the truth. What is your proof that a Muslim isn’t allowed to draw based on God’s Word?
Throw down your rod IF you’re able.
Muhammad Rasheed - You have NOTHING on your side of the argument that I should take seriously so stand down, pseudo-religious philosopher.
Michael Daniels - Who are you arguing with, Bruh?
Muhammad Rasheed - Fellow Islamicists who are anti-drawings/picture taking. Why? You want a little? HUH??? You want some????
Muhammad Rasheed - [gets in boxing stance, circa 1850]
Michael Daniels - Well, to be honest, I'm really not too down with the whole drawing thing...mainly because I suck at it....I''m more of a thousand words type of guy... Does the Qu'ran say "don't draw stuff"? If do...shame on you, heathen!!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - It absolutely does not, which is the point of my status.
Muhammad Rasheed - You should take drawing lessons. With your writing skills you are only 50% cool. Drawing powers will take you over the top.
Michael Daniels - So some dudes who knew some people who talked to some folks who was the great grand son of the guy that shined Muhammed's shoes mad that mess up?
Michael Daniels - Uh, did I mention I can juggle?
Tami Bhuiyan - Yikes I posted on your wall not the thread..yet another vindictive Facebook timeline issue!!! And Rasheed..can't argue religion, anyone's momma or politics. I can however argue that if this Daniels dude can juggle then he has some social defect to compensate as God does not give with 2 hands..(=
Muhammad Rasheed - The jury is still out as whether he can actually juggle or not. lol
Tami Bhuiyan - And rash..bro if you say fellow islamicists then are you BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION...feelin a lil guilty with your current occupation? Dude.
Muhammad Rasheed - Slow down, peewee. "Fellow Islamicists" was said in jocularity. I feel not a shred of guilt because Surah 96 is 100% the truth about how Allah feels about us using "the pen."
Any Muslim who tells me I'm not supposed to draw is confused.
Tami Bhuiyan - Who you callin pee wee? Is this a reference to the Herman dude? Pfft i took his bike and roughed up that wimp years ago..notice ain't no pee wees big adventure part 2??!! that's right, COZ THAT DUDE DINT INSURE HIS RIDE.
Muhammad Rasheed - hahahahahahaha!!
Tami Bhuiyan - Yeah I wouldn't listen to a Muslim telling you that you can't draw~> because the dude who said that is A HYPOCRITE as in maths class from early on he was drawing his wonky triangles with the rest of the peeps..or ILLITERATE..as in got kicked out at an early age, couldn't draw a triangle and smoked in the locker room to deal with the repercussions and got expelled and is now a bitter man walkin around telling peeps they can't draw. SMH tried to pull the pee wee job with me and I was like nuh man you can't read a map.
Tami Bhuiyan - And yes sura 96 "al qalam" all about the pen. Knowledge is sunnat. Adjournment of the religious issues i am worried i will say something incorrect and lose my ramadan happies.
Muhammad Rasheed - That's EXACTLY what I suspected about those fools!
Muhammad Rasheed - You can't lose your Ramadan happies if you argue for truth, Tami-head. Relax.
Tami Bhuiyan - True story they all walking around just bitter because their triangle look like a weird corn chip..and then someone was like DUDE!!! YOUR TRIANGLE GOT 6 POINTS!! DEVIL WORSHIPPER!!! And therein lies the foundation of a judgemental existence .
Muhammad Rasheed - hahahahaha!! is THAT how it started?! lol
Tami Bhuiyan - Tami head actually sounds endearing ..(= but to use that back on you sounds weirdly contagious ..rash-head..?? Seriously you wanna go there?
Muhammad Rasheed - If you were using it back on me you'd use MY first name.
Tami Bhuiyan - Yeep...it's really freaky how all these supposed islamicists all got ancestors who went to school in the Salem witch trials era...and they be just picking and choosing things that will rectify years of bullying...you just gotta say to them dude its ok not everyone can draw a triangle and just watch the lil guy break down in gratitude.
Muhammad Rasheed - ...or sic the authorities on me to give me 80 lashes.
Tami Bhuiyan - True story . But if I were to use your first name it would come out as a compliment-type comment and you know I keep that stuff like red sour candy worms. MINE ALL MINE...u gotta save a little kitty stuck on top of a tree in a lightning storm with rabid dogs surrounding if you want some of that..
Muhammad Rasheed - hm.
Muhammad Rasheed - where do they keep these kitties stuck in trees w/rabid dog attachments again?
Muhammad Rasheed - do they even have "kitties" in Australia? if so, are they really felines/cats or something crazy and/or poisonous?
Tami Bhuiyan - Lol plenty of Hadith are ignored in order for people to "successfully" run a country. The authorities in question are like them terminator robots in my opinion...I don't think they are real people. Dint you ever wonder where all that oil money was going to? Not the country (still listed as third world, more homeless than residents) not the guerilla warfare (they just took the bombs and stuff from the US and went all scorpion when they got caught..) all oil proceeds are going to make robots that look like peeps who are programmed. They probably thought governer arnie look so cool with a rifle..wow ima get my whole department lookin like that..
Tami Bhuiyan - Yes there are kitties everywhere. There is one that habitually gets stuck in a tree near my window, picks a fight with a possum, loses and falls off. Thrice has the kitty instigated a riot with other kitties and the possum had to retaliate by bringing in his cousins from the westside. Not really sure who won the battle..but there is a rather odd looking breed walking around..I have dubbed them kissums.
Tami Bhuiyan - You save that weird lookin kitty from its cage fighting ring, you get the candy (=
Muhammad Rasheed - lol @ "kissums"
Muhammad Rasheed - What does it look like? Tell me an' I'm on it!
Michael Daniels - WHOA....WHOA.....WHOA....WHOA!!!!!!!!... I can too juggle.
Muhammad Rasheed - Psh!!
Michael Daniels - Please tell me "Psh!!" is Arabic for..."Oh, my bad Rev. You're probably pretty good."
Muhammad Rasheed - Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma where are you? This is the thread we're suppose to be bickering in.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - Surely in the prophet is the best character. Who can explain the quran better than the one who is been sent with.so also there are so many verse that say Allah created plants for man to benefit from. Alcohol is from plant but Allah forbid us taking alcohol. And mind you that verse is not the way u understood it. Please brother check tafsir bin khathir it will explain that verse for you.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - To clear up what you don't know,islam does not condemn drawing in general but condemn drawing animate objects.
Muhammad Rasheed - Show me in the Qur'an where "Islam" condemns this, please. According to The One who made me, He's the one that taught me the use of the pen... drawing/writing. He never said I can't draw something. But I may be wrong.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - Go read the commentary of those verse. Maybe you read my explanation once more or repeatedly..
Muhammad Rasheed - In case you didn't notice, I thought your explanation was complete nonsense. If God didn't condemn it, then it's not haram. Period. No one else's opinion matters.
Muhammad Rasheed - Allah is the author of what is a sin and what is not. Some people have a serious problem understanding that basic fact. But their problem has nothing to do with reality. Stop preaching stuff as true what is in fact NOT true, but is only your opinion, please.
Muhammad Rasheed - Thanks.
Tami Bhuiyan - My brothers~> Islam is defined as PEACE and a Muslim will be judged ONLY BY ALLAH SUBHANA WA TA ALA on his INTENTIONS ALONE. Not by anyone else~> including but not limited to Islamic scholars, sheikhs, and Cliffs notes. That's all I gotta say about that.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - @Tami may ALLAH INCREASE you in knowledge. maybe Rasheed only make his sustenance from drawing so is afraid of leaving it
Muhammad Rasheed - TRANSLATION: "I hope you come to realize that other random people are also gods whose opinions matter just as much as the commands of Allah, so if you don’t obey their random interpretations of the deen, then you will be dragged down into hell along those of us who practice shirk."
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - in muslim/bukhary the prophet (saw)said those who make pictures will be asked to put life in it on the day of jugdement and they will not be able to.
Muhammad Rasheed – I heard that in the other thread and already remarked that it is a false hadith that holds no weight to me based on Surah 96… a chapter from the Holy Qur’an, which is the revealed scripture of God on earth. I notice that you don't really have any kind of argument to give weight to your opinion in this matter, Danjuma.
Tami Bhuiyan - Yes, Inshallah my knowledge will increase and inshallah i will not use this knowledge to benefit my life and people whom I love and pray for. But the second I use this knowledge to judge, belittle or demean others, may Allah take my knowledge away and forgive me.
Muhammad Rasheed - And where is the Qur'anic verse that supports that hadith? Don't you think it odd that Allah Himself... who knows EVERYTHING concerning the unseen... wouldn't have mentioned that at least ONCE?! Especially considering He told you that He is the One that instructed mankind in the use of the pen? What do you DO with a pen?
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - to educate once more the prophet said i have been sent with the quran and something like it
Tami Bhuiyan - Gentlemen avoid this discussion~> the holy Quran should not be used as a tool for argument, nor should the words of our beloved prophet sal alaihi wa salam. You wanna get your law and order on, invest in jury duty.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - if you dont believe in the sayings of the prophet then u are not a muslim
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - TAMI with due respect the guy dont believe in the prophet
Muhammad Rasheed - I also love it when jackasses tell me what I believe or not. lol
Tami Bhuiyan - Surely Allah subhana wa TA ala has mentioned in the Qur'an about judging others, danjuma? Perhaps you should revise the cliffs notes commentary prior to making comments like these.
Muhammad Rasheed - Judging others based on wrongheaded opinions...
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - am not judging him but only telling him to re-proclaim the shadah
Muhammad Rasheed - Sorry but anyone that upholds the hadith OVER the Qur'an is only half a Muslim. Check yourself, Danjuma, because your deen is in danger.
Muhammad Rasheed - (i think this is the new angle i'm going to take, Tami. that was fun. forgive me beforehand at the potential ugly involved. lol)
Tami Bhuiyan - Danjuma..i feel sad for you. When I read Qur'an and then the interpretation and don't understand, I ask my mom and dad to explain. May Allah bless them, they are the only ones who have ever been able to explain to me in a way which made me love Allah and Islam more. Never was there any questioning or judgement to my character, or anyone else's. If you cannot question or EDUCATE without judgement then it is better for you to keep your mouth shut.
Tami Bhuiyan - And no, I don't want to be your friend.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - well so sorry for people like u who dont believe in the prophet statement they arethe kawarijj whom the prophet has warned us agaist i dont even know am talking to one of them
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - the prophet said those who says my way of life is not pleasing to them surely they are not part of me
Tami Bhuiyan - And Rasheed two wrongs don't make a right bro~> THE HIGH ROAD!!! Take the high road and keep your sadaqahs. Look at your kid~> one day she is going to be in a similar situation unfortunately. Arguing with ignorance promotes ignorance.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - am very sure peolpe like you dont even know how to observe salat just the the way the prophet has taught us.bcos there is no how you could pray without following the prophet
Muhammad Rasheed - @Tami: I was only kidding (for the most part). lol
Tami Bhuiyan - I'm not going to even bother responding to the fool (WITH ALL DUE RESPECT..).
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - lol he ran away because you dont have point
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - respond
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - or are u tired?
Muhammad Rasheed – This is how it works…
Qur'an says: "Establish regular prayer"
Hadith: Establishes regular prayer
Logical conclusion: Those hadith are CLEARLY authentic. Allah left it up to the prophet to determine how many salats we are to make. No big deal. He could trust the prophet with that task, no prob.
Qur'an says: "Allah taught you the use of the pen."
Hadith: Claims that using the pen in one of the ways Allah taught will condemn you.
Logical Conclusion: Questionable hadith.
Muhammad Rasheed - I ran away from what? This is MY thread and YOU don't have an argument. You hold onto a lot of worthless opinion though. You may wish to let that stuff go.
Tami Bhuiyan - Oooh I read about this and there was a dr Phil special on...Rasheed have you met this Danjuma character? There are like KKK members on Facebook masquerading as "islamicists" with their sole purpose to instigate anger in other Muslims...hmm..Danjuma..?
Muhammad Rasheed - No, I found him answering on a thread from an old friend. He came out of nowhere with his opinions masquerading as truth to attack me.
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - painter or artist i will pray ALLAH TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER JOB SO THAT YOU CAN STOP DRAWING ANIMATE OBJECT
Muhammad Rasheed - I will pray that He gives you the other half of your missing brain.
If it be His will, of course.
Tami Bhuiyan - Ahh so he COULD actually be billy ray danged joner, one of the KKK rednecked minions? I say excellent training in that department. He even got the same grammatical errors that are found with the middle eastern and Asian populus. How funny.
Muhammad Rasheed - maybe there's a course they take...?
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - TAMI I THOUGHT u ar there to mediate us but is quit unfortunate that u are also igniting the flame. i respect women so much but i wont respond to the insult u vetted on me
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - just stay glue and watch
Muhammad Rasheed - Your feelings are hurt? aww.
Muhammad Rasheed - poor danjuma…
Tami Bhuiyan - Yup run by foghorn leghorn. COZ HO CHI MINH DIDNT COME WITH AN INTERPRETER.
Muhammad Rasheed - makes sense. lol
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - i never insulted you guys u are just feeling boiled by my opinion but you cant help it .
Abdul Waqas - my mom didnt allow me to take art lessons becoz of religious stuffs....... i still hate that day. though i love my mom.
Muhammad Rasheed - From what i can gather from his more recent babbling, he expects you to sit and watch him skillfully dissect my argument and prove me wrong. let me know when that happens, huh? Apparently he's waiting for some unknown big, dramatic moment to reveal this great proof of argument that somehow trumps Surah 96.
Muhammad Rasheed - Danjuma your worthless opinion, which is not backed by anything of truth, IS insulting all by itself.
Tami Bhuiyan - Yep typical of their kind. IN MY FOGHORN VOICE: "we gonna come up there and ima say, IMA SAY we gonna shoot up everthing in sight...what..hold up..what you mean this bed sheet make me look fat??? MOMMMA!!!"
Abdul Waqas - wait. my comment got lost in this fight. so who's fighting with whom? *grabs popcorn* oh btw, anyone who says comedy is a sin, i'll 'bleep' slap that person.
Muhammad Rasheed - [trying to imagine a foghorn leghorn impression filtered through an australian accent]
Muhammad Rasheed - ...
Muhammad Rasheed - [gives up]
Muhammad Rasheed - [head hurts]
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - is that the only verse you know brother?
Abdul Waqas - awwww how about a freedom pill that clears headache? rasheed i support you completely man and i think being talented in whatever way, is a gift from Allah.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Waqas: This Danjuma character claims that drawing animate objects is haram based on a questionable hadith that lacks any kind of support from the Word of Allah, yet is genuinely surprised when he is treated like a buffoon for this retarded opinion by a Muslim professional cartoonist.
Tami Bhuiyan - Ah this explains it. Freud wrote the book on it but alas the poor child is in denial and won't accept the diagnosis of obvious mother issues. His mom didn't let him draw~> cannot hate his mother~> hence transfers all that hate and rage into people who draw.
Abdul Waqas - abu sulaym: what are you good at?
Muhammad Rasheed - He's good at talking out of the side of his neck...
Muhammad Rasheed - Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma wrote: “is that the only verse you know brother?”
In this discussion, it's the only one I NEED to know. What do YOU have?
Abdul Waqas - tami. if you are refering to me, i took those drawings and used in words. and i support drawings
Abdul Waqas - what's danjuma though?
Muhammad Rasheed - No, Tami was using your comment as a possible explanation for Danjuma's issues.
Tami Bhuiyan - Lol. Again, high road. We have established billy ray here is just a trained minion of the foghorn leghorn school of redneck. Ain't nothin more here. Keep the peace, brothers!!! And Abdul lol your mom got you outta art class? Awesome lady(=
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - are creating a team?
Abdul Waqas - haaaaa i see. now i get it. that's what im saying. i used that rage into writings and character creations, delegating between good and evil. what the artist does is conveying the message to its people, that good stands firm against all evil, no matter the evil big or small.
btw, some of the old scholars used drawings of people that connected with islam (except Muhammad pbuh and his associates) to convey people who didnt understand, what was really going on
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - three to one
Abdul Waqas - wait. tami and abu are team? and me and rasheed are? and who is danjuma?
Tami Bhuiyan - Omg this Abdul character is so innocently cute loves it!!!!
Abdul Waqas - so i get it. tami you are confusing sometimes so three to one, i like it *more pepsi please and popcorn too*
Abdul Waqas - NOW I GET IT so danjuma is abu sulaym? *sherlock holmes struck*
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - yes
Abdul Waqas - oh abu, btw sherlock holmes is a fictional character, but he wasnt drawn, he was written. still im in hell if i follow him?
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - ???
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm pretty sure there is a sherlock holmes comic book adaptation somewhere...
Abdul Waqas - you do know that Thor, Captain America (who were drawn) are in the same category of Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Who (who were written)?
i remember, some idiot, told me that creating fictional characters in books is the same sin as creating them in comics. want to say something about that? or are they not drawn?
Abdul Waqas - yep. i have his 3 books, where with the writings, there are some sketches and they are pretty old rasheed
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - i can give you answer to your question only if i understood what you meant by that
Muhammad Rasheed - ^lol
Muhammad Rasheed - every now and again he actually makes sense.
Muhammad Rasheed - Define "old." (this should be good coming from a 17 year old)
Muhammad Rasheed - Okay, where's this teslim quote you were talking about?
Abdul Waqas - wait. im not 17 :S im 23 somewhat and who's making sense?
Muhammad Rasheed - danjuma for a brief, fraction of a milli-sec.
Muhammad Rasheed - 17. 23. it is all one.
Muhammad Rasheed - Define "old."
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - rashman you need to attend quranic class because u ar very poor in the religion
Abdul Waqas - 1993? and one more book i had that i think my brother in 1984 used when he was in school
Abdul Waqas - Rashman? that's a nice name dude *new character creation*
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - u dont even knw what teslim is poor you> then y the bragging in the deen
Abu Sulaym - Ibrahim Danjuma referring to rasheedd
Abdul Waqas - teslim is music.
Abdul Waqas - Teslim
Muhammad Rasheed - Danjuma said, "u see u dont respond to teslim," and I interpreted that to mean he posted a response quoting teslim. Apparently it was just more babbling (having only half a brain tends to do that to people).
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - teslim means greeting
Abu Sulaym Ibrahim Danjuma - rasheed pls goto class and understand islam better than the way you are
Muhammad Rasheed - What does "teslim" (and my understanding or lack thereof) have to do with Islam again?
Muhammad Rasheed - You speak in half-English, foghorn leghorn speak. It's not my fault I didn't understand what you were talking about. *shrug*
Tami Bhuiyan - HAHAHA this was just the classic laugh that I needed!!! A few things I need to clarify~>...
Tami Bhuiyan - MATE. I don't have an Aussie accent, ORRIGHT?
Tami Bhuiyan - I will never play on the same team as Danjuma unless he (eloquently speaking) grabs a mitt and catches a clue.
Tami Bhuiyan - Abdul why have you never commented on THE RASHMANS posts before? Haha I'm still laughing. And I agree. 23=17
Abdul Waqas - Coz Rashman is what gotham wants, not what it needs right now. He is a silent guardian, a watchful protector... A Rash Knight.
And please, 23 is not 17 Go to hell, people
Muhammad Rasheed - It's only 6 years older. How much different can it be really? I mean really?
Abdul Waqas - smh. fine. im 17.
Tami Bhuiyan - Exactly~> until you turn 25, you still may as well be 16. Don't hate the playa, abby. Thems are the rules. Gotham city is batman...ah I have made the connection!!! He becomes RASHMAN after too many sessions with robin in the bat mobile..??
Muhammad Rasheed - Abdul Waqas wrote: "smh. fine. im 17."
Abdul Waqas - exactly. shame on you Rashman. "sessions" with robin. tsk tsk tsk.
Tami Bhuiyan - I think Robin was an evil mastermind behind the whole thing~> think about it...the dude is classic jan Brady. He never gets the glory, never gets to drive, and is batmans lil bitch WITH NO PAY~>??!! AND he doesn't ever go loco or rebel. Obviously has some vengeful retribution in the making. So he goes and puts some crystals in batmans ribena and seduces him. But he can't figure out how to unzip the bat suit and then out of desperation bangs batman around in the manner of a tomato sauce jar that you can't get the lid off and batman gets heat rash as a result. Completely justifiable~> he got the keys.
Abdul Waqas - in my head: *marry me :O* that, was so brilliant!!! omg! so robin did all this for just the keys to the batmobile? amazing. i want to be robin *sobbing* as in nightwing. not, the gay robin of 1950s. :|
Tami Bhuiyan - Hahaha the gay robin of the 1950s inspired the women's movement I think. Too many wives identify with robin~> don't get to drive, talk back or question the man and don't get paid or laid unless they drug the dude..nightwing robin is after many therapy sessions with the foam bat, milky ways and a dartboard. And he also got the lil superpower in his belt. Batman got no superpower and his ears are misplaced.
Muhammad Rasheed - I don't even KNOW a 'Robin!'
Muhammad Rasheed - >:(
Tami Bhuiyan - Robin is a pseudonym. Be very wary of co workers offering you beverages and looking longingly at your ride..
Tami Bhuiyan - Ah hideous you ate another member of the foghorns crew?
Tami Bhuiyan - Wow autocorrect has made my intended comment so much better!'
Tami Bhuiyan - Seriously Rasheed~> where do you find these generic Barneys? Is this part of some asshole outreach program?
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