Tony Steed – [shared meme]
Muhammad Rasheed - John 15
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you."
Muhammad Rasheed - It's metaphor. smh
Tony Steed - Problem is some, most fundamentalists take the bible, the Torah, Koran, etc as facts and some act on it. You can make any of those texts say good or bad. That's like going against the teachings of Zeus, or Ananki, people still believe in them and take their works seriously.
Muhammad Rasheed - The problem is that some people who are determined to vilify religion lack the ability to discern between people who are acting on the bible/Qur'an, versus those who aren't but just say they are Christian or Muslim. This is because they really don't know the bible or Qur'an themselves but just enjoy the rush of slandering people out of their ignorance.
The meme above is trying to claim that Jesus said he wanted the people to burn other people to death, but a casual peek at the context of the quote revealed it said something different. The person who made it was either stupid as hell, or deliberately deceitful, knowing that the average Facebooker, like you, wouldn't bother to look up the verse because he was so eager to continue to vilify mainstream religion.
Muhammad Rasheed - So... you are saying that the problem lies in "fundamentalists" taking the text "as fact," yet here we have an anti-religionist deliberately misrepresenting the texts to stir up hatred against the religion.
And that's the team YOU support, huh?
Tony Steed - Yeah I am saying fundamentalists take the text as fact. The average Christian treats it for what it is parable. That person is anti-religion, I concede that. But nowhere in that chapter of John is the point made in the picture nullified. I don't take teams. I post relevance. I'm personally against religion as fact, religion as comfort yes have at it. But when Religion tries to influence politics we got issues. Fundamentalists try to influence that.. we got issues.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: "But nowhere in that chapter of John is the point made in the picture nullified"
Then imagine their confusion when they notice that they aren't made out of wood and sprouting leaves. For someone that is too stupid to tell the difference between a command, and a metaphor to meditate upon – with enough power to influence political policy – what would change if religion were removed from the table? Will stupid people magically not misinterpret law, policy & procedure now that they are free to not misinterpret sacred scripture? How would that work exactly?
Tony Steed - If religion were removed from the table. Stupid people would still exist, as would murderers and racists, and terrorists, adulterers, etc. They exist now, they just use religion as their excuse then pray for forgiveness. With religion off the equation 500 years ago. We'd probably be on other worlds right now, arguing over resources. But no one killing in the name of some deity. People would have to think and really come up with ways to hate someone not like them. They'd have to actually use science to determine whether the fetus is alive or not, or whether being gay is genetic or not. Whether women should be treated as lesser, and forced into wearing and acting in certain ways. There are far more pluses to losing religion than keeping it. Morality is not a religious thing it's a human thing.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “If religion were removed from the table. Stupid people would still exist, as would murderers and racists, and terrorists, adulterers, etc. They exist now, they just use religion as their excuse then pray for forgiveness.”
What would keep them from replacing that excuse for another excuse?
Tony Steed wrote: “With religion off the equation 500 years ago. We'd probably be on other worlds right now, arguing over resources.”
You admitted above that the average believer doesn’t misinterpret the text and “act on” the misinterpretations, only the stupid ones do that – the stupid ones that have the political power to prevent us all from exploring these other worlds you are talking about. So if we remove religion, what would prevent these same stupid people from continuing to hold us back over something else they think?
Tony Steed wrote: “But no one killing in the name of some deity.”
In the name of which deity were the millions of people killed during the two World Wars? What about the millions and millions of people slaughtered under the atheist communist regimes of Mao, Stalin and Lenin?
Tony Steed wrote: “People would have to think and really come up with ways to hate someone not like them.”
Like saying black people are only ¾ of a human being? The eugenics movement? The black people have low IQs movement? What deity’s name were those concepts created under?
Tony Steed wrote: “They'd have to actually use science to determine whether the fetus is alive or not, or whether being gay is genetic or not.”
Are you saying the fetus is not alive and you can prove this through compiled scientific data?
Tony Steed wrote: “Whether women should be treated as lesser, and forced into wearing and acting in certain ways.”
You’re saying that it is because of religion that women are treated as less than men, not because men are assholes? Religion did it? lol
Tony Steed wrote: “There are far more pluses to losing religion than keeping it.”
Sure if you don’t know anything about it but only think you do. There’s all kinds of things that I don’t know anything about that I could ignorantly believe we can do without because I don’t I know any better.
Tony Steed wrote: “Morality is not a religious thing it's a human thing.”
Meanwhile everything we know about morality/ethics came directly from religious philosophy. Every bit of it.
Tony Steed - 1) There will always be excuses for people to use. But violence would indeed be reduced. 2) Religious politics is one of the problems of our time, along with term limits. people vote religion when they vote in politics along with finance. But people who vote tend to vote for the same guys who share their religion instead of the best interests of the community.
Tony Steed - 3) i LOVE when people bring up Mao and Stalin, and Lenin, or whatever atheist boogeyman they can think of. But it's always those three, and sometimes Hitler, even though he was a Catholic. Those dictators you mention didn't kill because they were atheist, they killed because they were douchebags. Atheism doesn't promote murdering millions of people. They killed because they had a belief that they could run the world better than a government of the people and for the people, and whatever biases they had towards certain groups. Read this to understand more. The use of those three is old, Religion needs some new Atheist boogeymen. Try Degrasse tyson or Bill Maher maybe?
Tony Steed - A Great Myth about Atheism: Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot = Atheism = Atrocity
Tony Steed - The Eugenics movement was horrible, especially since a lot of it happened in North Carolina. The myth about blacks has it's roots in religion. Some reflections on eugenics and religion
Tony Steed - A fetus is a fetus it is not a person according to the bible. It is LESS than a human being until it takes it's first breath. A fetus according to current scientific data is not viable outside of the womb and therefore not a living entity. We can grow organic body parts that move as if they were grown in a human being. They aren't viable without assistance. Until a fetus reaches a certain point in development then yes it's not a technical living entity. A recently fertilized egg is not alive either it's potential. God is Pro-Abortion...
Tony Steed - Numbers 5:21-28 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath--"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away. " " 'Then the woman is to say, "Amen. So be it." 23 " 'The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall have the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water will enter her and cause bitter suffering. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; her abdomen will swell and her thigh waste away, and she will become accursed among her people. 28 If, however, the woman has not defiled herself and is free from impurity, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. Book of Numbers...
Tony Steed - Numbers 3:15-16English Standard Version (ESV)
15 “List the sons of Levi, by fathers' houses and by clans; every male from a month old and upward you shall list.” 16 So Moses listed them according to the word of the Lord, as he was commanded.
Tony Steed - Leviticus 27:6 for a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels of silver and that of a female at three shekels of silver; Leviticus 27:6
Tony Steed - About women Here ya go As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:33-35
You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5:22-24 NLT)
Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives' conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior. (1 Peter 3:1-2
Give no woman power over you to trample upon your dignity. (Sirach 9:2
Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. (Colossians 3:18
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14) Numbers 31: 14-18 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Tony Steed - The one about women was a bit too easy. As a former Christian Reading the bible is what made me an Atheist
Brian Wenger - Knowledge bombs be droppin'.
Tony Steed - Not everything about morality came from the bible. There were moral people FAR before there was religious doctrine. Every single religious person is agnostic towards another religion where they have their own beliefs of morals. There are countries and cultures who've NEVER heard of Jesus or Mohammed, and live just fine. Humans develop morals so that we don't be douchebags to each other not the gods we create.
Tony Steed - @Brian Wenger… Lol, one of the benefits of having spent much of my life as a Christian and having read the book, and having read the Koran when I "rebelled" and became a 5 percenter was gaining knowledge of various religions. Then it led to studying the torah, the koran more, the book of mormom, vedic teachings, and the lore of Buddha, and hare khrisna's. As an Atheist I need to know what i'm talking about.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “1) There will always be excuses for people to use. But violence would indeed be reduced.”
No, it would not. People kill each other because they want to, not because religion forces them to. They may use a bible verse or two, or my personal favorite simply invent a story about the past biblical figures, and use these to justify their wrong that they wanted to do anyway, but it is illogical to say that the system is making them do wrong that they otherwise would not commit.
Tony Steed wrote: “2) Religious politics is one of the problems of our time…”
Define “religious politics.” Just because someone who subscribes to a particular religion makes a political stance, it does not mean that stance is automatically endorsed by the tenets of their faith, no matter how much they may wish to interpret it as such. Those who have that opinion about politics are ‘sheep’ in their own right and believe it for no other reason than because the like-minded believe it.
Tony Steed wrote: “…along with term limits. people vote religion when they vote in politics along with finance. But people who vote tend to vote for the same guys who share their religion instead of the best interests of the community.”
Everybody votes for their own interests, for the issues that mean the most to them, whether we’re talking religion or not.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “3) i LOVE when people bring up Mao and Stalin, and Lenin, or whatever atheist boogeyman they can think of.”
You: “With religion off the equation 500 years ago. We'd probably be on other worlds right now, arguing over resources. But no one killing in the name of some deity.”
Me: “In the name of which deity were the millions of people killed during the two World Wars? What about the millions and millions of people slaughtered under the atheist communist regimes of Mao, Stalin and Lenin?”
You said that if there were no religions that no one would have been killed “in the name of some deity.” I asked what deity’s name were the hundreds of millions killed under the great communist regimes of the 20th century. The answer of course is “None.” In other words – since you seem confused on this point – that without religion human beings would kill each other anyway despite your obviously false claims to the contrary.
Tony Steed wrote: “But it's always those three…”
You know why it’s always those three? Because more people died under their modern-progressive Godless regimes than all the “religious wars” combined. Can you see why that would be relevant?
Tony Steed wrote: “Those dictators you mention didn't kill because they were atheist…”
So? That’s wasn’t why I mentioned them. Try to stay on topic. To recap: You said that if there was no religion 500 years ago, no one would be killed in the name of some deity. Meanwhile these three guys who didn’t believe in the deity slaughtered hundreds and hundreds of millions of people in the modern, post-Marxian era.
Tony Steed wrote: “…they killed because they were douchebags.”
So let me get this straight: human beings without religion can be douchebags who commit great wrong upon other humans just because they feel like it. Thank you for making my point for me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “The Eugenics movement was horrible, especially since a lot of it happened in North Carolina.”
lol Oh, is THAT why it is horrible? smh lol
Tony Steed wrote: “The myth about blacks has it's roots in religion.”
The myth about blacks has its roots in attempts to justify wrong doing to others with alternate and fraudulent interpretations of the text. Originally Ham was cursed because he preferred slave-like behavior (squatting on the land of others instead of taking ownership of what his father had bequeathed to him), and only centuries later did the text change to saying all of his descendants would be coursed for more ambiguous reasons. In other words, the religion originally was black & white and clear about a non-racism based issue, and only raw politics changed it to racism and the people in power tried to force it into the religion itself.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “god-is-pro-abortion...”
This website you quoted regarding the ‘abortion in the bible’ claims was the worst one you posted. That guy is ignorant as hell on all points, and possesses zero understanding and insight on even the most basic level of scripture in a clumsy attempt to shoehorn it into his ideology (interesting was all of the folk saying “thanks for this!” in the comments, proving that raw stupidity is actually a bottomless pit.) The part where he says the bible claims that children under a month old “are not even worth anything” even though it says clearly that they are worth 5 shekels. In modern Israel, their version of the shekel is worth only $0.27, but in biblical times it was worth significantly more and was used as a bartering material, not a minted coin, and could be silver, bronze or gold.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “A fetus is a fetus it is not a person according to the bible.”
Considering how much wealth is generated from these aborted unborn baby tissues and fluids that the unscrupulous medical industry doesn’t have to pay for (in fact, they actually get the suppliers to pay THEM to take that highly-valuable raw material from them), only the MOST ignorant people actually think this is a religious topic.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “Numbers 5:21-28 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath…”
This is not an abortion ritual. The point of it is to conflict the woman who had been accused of adultery but denies it. It’s letting her know that a curse will be on her if she is lying. The ‘heaviness’ of the ritual is supposed to weigh upon her, and if her conscious is still potent, she will eventually confess her sins.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed posted: “Numbers 3:15-16"
Tell me this: Why would they list younger children in the census when the Infant Mortality Rate (IMR) was so high in those days? Hm?
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony Steed wrote: “Not everything about morality came from the bible.”
All morality came from religion. It didn’t pop into the world by itself, but was specifically birthed from religious philosophy.
Tony Steed wrote: “There were moral people FAR before there was religious doctrine.”
There has ALWAYS been religious doctrine among us. It defines our humanity, and is what civilized us in the first place.
Tony Steed wrote: “Every single religious person is agnostic towards another religion where they have their own beliefs of morals. There are countries and cultures who've NEVER heard of Jesus or Mohammed, and live just fine.”
That’s a strawman. Those two weren’t the only messengers of God. If you truly studied the religions you claimed to study then you would know that, unless atheists mean something different when they say the word “study.”
Tony Steed wrote: “Humans develop morals so that we don't be douchebags to each other…”
So without religion, we wouldn’t have morals, and we thus wouldn’t have anything to check our douchebaggery? Interesting…
Tony Steed wrote: “@Brian Wenger… Lol, one of the benefits of having spent much of my life as a Christian and having read the book…”
I’m skeptical of you having bothered to read it.
Tony Steed wrote: “…and having read the Koran when I ‘rebelled…’"
And there’s no way you read THAT. Not a single one of your posts have given away a hint that you have.
Tony Steed wrote: “As an Atheist I need to know what i'm talking about”
So when does that part start kicking in?