Sunday, January 25, 2015
Battle Mode - Atheist vs Muslim: Religious Antiquity
Sa'tori Ananda - the problem with that statement is the assumption that any people all do one thing. Africa for instance has/had many gods and many avenues of spirituality and no religion for centuries
Brian Lewis - I'm talking to ones here in the good ole usa.
Sa'tori Ananda - ah ok
Brian Lewis - I talk to many Africans at my school.We talk about our disconnection from each other.These were some of the questions we were building on.
Sa'tori Ananda - the thought I have about most people is they dont actually believe in what they say they do. they want to i guess but they dont actually. for instance.. many people claim to be christian. if they actually believed in what their bible said they wouldnt do most of the things they do.. because they would believe they would face judgement and go to hell.
Sa'tori Ananda - people believe they will go to jail if they steal for instance or speed when they see a cop so they dont do it
Brian Lewis - You very correct when it comes to moral laws.A lot believers in these major religions don't follow their own book..lol
Sa'tori Ananda - they dont even know what it says
Sa'tori Ananda - i hear ppl say "the grace of god" that isnt even in the bible
Sa'tori Ananda - actually the opposite.. the bible says in heb 10:26 if you keep sinning after you know its a sin, than their is no sacrifice for you left
Sa'tori Ananda - the whole blessed and highly favored mess too.. like what?!!
Brian Lewis - Does it have to be in the bible to make it a true statement?.I believe the Most High shows grace everyday to me just by waking up.
Sa'tori Ananda - lol very little of whats in those books are true- in my opinion
Brian Lewis - I know with you..lol
Sa'tori Ananda - question just for curiosity .. if you were born on an island without any other outside influence how would you believe in a Most High
Brian Lewis - I can look at all of creation and know Im not the Creator of this.Something or Someone other than myself had grand designs for this planet.
Sa'tori Ananda - well thats not answering the question but there are millions of people who didnt have outside influence and they made up many gods over the years of existence. study creation myths of all people .. it gives amazing perspective of what our imaginations are capable of. Science explains most things. I think spirituality is ok as long as we understand its mostly our own minds trying to make up what we have no answers for. not that there are no answers just that personally we may not have them.
Sa'tori Ananda - for instance the aboriginals have dreamtime. and the celtics had Melody.. the hebrews have the garden of eden and so on and so forth
Brian Lewis - well i believe in reincarnation also.I think everything here concerning life runs in cycles.
Sa'tori Ananda - then you have your own religion lol cuz neither the bible or the quran teach that
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "...but black people didnt always have religion."
Sure they did. Humans have always had religion. Are you referring to the specific modern three Abrahamic religions?
Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "there was spirituality in every culture pre religion and there was peace."
There have been pockets of peace among humanity around the globe, but we are a warring species by our nature. The point of civilization is to control our animal selves.
Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "also buddhism is atheist. and its uber peaceful"
Here: How an Extremist Buddhist Network Is Sowing Hatred Across Asia
None of us are immune from the savage criminal mind. Individuals who refuse to play nice are the reason for strife in the earth, not religion.
Brian Lewis - I remember losing my brakes on Mt.Eisenhower in Colorado.3 mile drop,brakes on fire,no way I could of slow down.I was gonna die and a few cars would of got taken out.I was ready to die.,but I started saying Jesus if it be your will,please slow this truck down so I don't kill nobody.I made it to the bottom without a scratch..Divine intervention?.Yes in my book!
Muhammad Rasheed - Brian Lewis wrote: "Some say religions starts war."
How? How would a religion ‘start a war’ without a war-minded human willing to point a gun?
Sa'tori Ananda - @muhammad .. i think you are confusing religion and spirituality. religion has not always existed
Muhammad Rasheed - Of course it has. Why wouldn't it?
Muhammad Rasheed - I think you have bought into the popular "let's demonize the concept of religion" idea.
Sa'tori Ananda - its your burden to prove that is has ..
Sa'tori Ananda - i dont really do the popular thing sorry
Brian Lewis - Luke 19:27
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "its your burden to prove that is has .."
Based on what? Because the person that has joined the popular "spiritual not religious" crowd said so? You're going to have to do better than that.
Brian Lewis - Religion and spiritually what's the difference ?
Sa'tori Ananda - im not spiritual.. im an atheist
Leah Garcia-Hatt - Hahahaha never, because they have faith in NOTHING!#faithisthesubstanceofallthingshopedforandnotseen
I could be offered anything in the world that the heart desires, and I would never trade my faith in Christ for it! I am proof of Devine interventions, where there are no coincidences, just REAL blessings on the watch of Christ!
Sa'tori Ananda - muhammad you arent actually stating any facts anyway. if i say the world was created by a unicorn then the burden of proof is on me.
Muhammad Rasheed -
religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
spiritual: any of various doctrines maintaining that the ultimate reality is spirit or mind.
Spirituality is the belief in the concept of "spirit" and/or an "all powerful creator" without the codified system of doctrine/rituals that demonstrate that belief in the adherent's life.
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "muhammad you arent actually stating any facts anyway. if i say the world was created by a unicorn then the burden of proof is on me."
Well, this is the fictional thing you said in which the burden of proof was on you to prove: "...but black people didnt always have religion. there was spirituality in every culture pre religion and there was peace."
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you forget already?
Brian Lewis - Wow i didn't mean for this thread to be a debate.lets be cool yo!..lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Any time you'd care to start tossing facts on the table, Sa'tori.
Leah Garcia-Hatt - #iwannaputonmymymymyboogieshoes. LUV that song, lol
Sa'tori Ananda - no i didnt forget.. im actually fully aware of the timeline of religion and we can start there if you want. i will state again .. religion has not always existed. it eventually came to be. and im generally not interested in "debating". brian and i have good conversations where we share our thoughts. you are arrogant and presumptive muhammad and my understandings and studies of religion and anthropology will be lost on your ego. so i will pass have a good day .. ( i bet you think you won too lol)
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "no i didnt forget.. im actually fully aware of the timeline of religion..."
This outta be good.
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "i will state again .. religion has not always existed."
Sure, before humans came on the scene.
Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "it eventually came to be. and im generally not interested in 'debating.'"
Figures. It's easy to spout fictions while telling the other person the burden of proof is on them while copping out of proving your own arrogant proclamations. Is that a tenet of atheism then?
Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "...and my understandings and studies of religion and anthropology..."
Another fiction? What do you have a bag full of them?
Sa'tori Ananda - lol ya
Muhammad Rasheed - And you magically don't believe the burden of proof is on you to prove any of them? Curious.
Sa'tori Ananda - magically.. Muhammad .. i love discussions. I dont have anything to prove. Im not the one who says there is a god or some infinite religion. thats you. so you have the burden of proof. like you know .. in court. Also. i dont care about debating to be right. this convo has no value to me. its not a discussion at all. you are already convinced and convicted of your beliefs. have them.
Brian Lewis - Oh Mr. Rasheed you live for this don't you?..lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "I dont have anything to prove."
...she said hypocritically, while telling someone else the burden of proof was on them. [roll eyes]
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "Im not the one who says their is a god or some infinite religion."
But you did proclaim a different fiction that you very tellingly refuse to provide proof for, while you attempt this "prove God" misdirection.
Muhammad Rasheed - No wonder you don't like debating.
Sa'tori Ananda - exactly. Muhammad.. the burden of proof is on the one with the suggestion of a deity and religion. im not sure why you dont understand that. Its like court. Im not sure why you dont understand
Sa'tori Ananda - your smugness is hilarious tho
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "exactly. Muhammad.. the burden of proof is on the one with the suggestion of a deity and religion."
The burden of proof is on any party that proclaimed a definitive truth.
Prove the religion/spiritual concept that you led the discussion with, please.
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "your smugness is hilarious tho"
Your smugness is the reason I'm here. ;)
Muhammad Rasheed - Back up your own smugness with the proof of your claims, please.
Sa'tori Ananda - let me get on my laptop. cell phone debates are exhausting lol and im mad i let you drag me into this
Muhammad Rasheed - Finally! Jesus!
Muhammad Rasheed – lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Brian Lewis wrote: "Oh Mr.Rasheed you live for this don't you?..lol"
Brian Lewis - Let's move on please..I have other random thoughts to spew out today..lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Not until I convert your atheist girlfriend to Islam...
Sa'tori Ananda - friend .. and no thank you. dated muslims and my best friend doesnt even show her eyebrows. pass
Brian Lewis - She is not my girlfriend and stop trying to convert my friends..or Im posting Gospel music all day today!..lolol
Muhammad Rasheed - hahahaha
Sa'tori Ananda - im tryin to wear less clothes not more
Sa'tori Ananda - and hold for the "debate" im going to sonic
Muhammad Rasheed - Is that the extent of your knowledge of "Islam?"
Muhammad Rasheed - lol smh
Muhammad Rasheed - Yeah, you'd BETTER run to Sonic!
Muhammad Rasheed - [throws shoe]
Sa'tori Ananda - see lol now youre showing me the bottom of shoes.. thats so offensive
Sa'tori Ananda - ok so we have to agree on a few things as common denominators. I agree with your above descriptions of religon/ spirituality. There are a couple of different timelines about who had religion first. But the most recent discovery of ritualized worship was in Botswana and its like 70k years old.
Brian Lewis - Botswana came before Sumerian?
Sa'tori Ananda - ya i think the sumerian religion is like 50 thousand years old but Sumerian is like the oldest written
Sa'tori Ananda - yall gonna make my head hurt trying to remember dates and stuff
Brian Lewis - Lol..
Muhammad Rasheed - Sa'tori Ananda wrote: "There are a couple of different timelines about who had religion first. "
It's impossible to know who had religion first using any kind of modern scientific method. The homo sapien is significantly older than 70,000 years. Consequently it's impossible to take such statements seriously.
Sa'tori Ananda - ok