Muhammad Rasheed -
Maybe they were really, REALLY mad at Bill...?
Dee Anne Moore - We all know why...
Rick Drew - Let's not forget that most of Cosby's accusers were black, and several were paid to keep silent. At what point does overwhelming evidence prove something? Sleeping with someone whey you have HIV? Not a big deal if you use protection. Allegedly drugging and raping over FIFTY women. Sure, that's no biggie.
Muhammad Rasheed - Rick, everything after "Let's not forget" is devoid of any actual knowledge of the case.
Stephen Wilkinson - I am afraid I have to side solidly with Rick on this one.
In this day and age you have to assume sexual disease transmissible status with ANYONE you plan to sleep with- being surreptitiously drugged and f**cked? not so much!
( caveat - some of the participants willingly took the drug from Cosby with the understanding that it was a 'happy' drug not a 'knockout drug' lol)
James Mullaney - Oh, c'mon, this is just silly. Stephen Wilkinson and Rick Drew are spot on. The big difference is that these women with evident low self-esteem climbed willingly into the sack with disgusting Sheen, but were drugged and dragged into the sack by even more disgusting Cosby. Another pretty big difference is everyone knew Sheen was a lowlife crawling with every social disease under the sun. Who was surprised by this "revelation?" Cosby, on the other hand, was Mr. Nice and Wholesome, so he had a LOT farther to fall.
Stephen Wilkinson - James, the other point I think is noteworthy ( especially about the shows being on the air) Is that Sheen's character mirrors his real life one, as a boorish, generally unwholesome drunk, drug addled, sleeping with prostitutes and women of low repute AND IN HIS PRIVATE LIFE, Sheen was absolutely the same, albeit more so
Sheen never set himself up as some exemplar of conduct neither did he make social commentary
Cosby's behavior also spanned a generation so... >:(
We dont like the idea of losing an icon, and for black people bereft of heroes - especially heroes endorsed by white people, losing one is particularly hard, but I think we do ourselves a disservice and more than that, GREAT HARM by finding offense where none is intended and where none exists. confused emoticon
BY ANY MEASURE, Cosby is a disgusting douchebag, and I HAVE read the deposition that recently was made public and also unreleased court documents in some of the cases he settled.
Mary Booth - There is no comparison.
Dan Bennett - Wondered at that myself. I know in some states tjhat knowingly exposing others to HIV infection, through sexual contact or otherwise, is a criminal. So why is dickweed getting pass on it?
Stephen Wilkinson - @Dan Bennett… It is not the "exposing others" that is criminal, rather "exposing w/o disclosure"
Sheen asserts that
a) due to extensive treatment, he is not 'exposing anyone' since he has an undetectable viral load in his blood
b) He also asserts that he has told sex partners prostitutes that he is HIV positive and that he never hid his status, only paying to avoid it being released publicly.
Some women have claimed that he didnt tell them, he says he has - the law is young and will probably need clarification via an appellate court. It may well be that you cant just TELL someone that you have HIV, you may have to get a signed, notarized acknowledgement :D
Nishani Frazier - Also important to note that most cases are over the statute of limitations. I have a problem with that concept given that people who are raped suffer a lifetime. But be that as it may, I agree with Stephen Wilkinson. It's time to stop the nonsense and deal with what the man did..... not allegedly but actually did. I also find this generally offensive as a woman given that we are always put in the position of lying until proven without a doubt undeniably truthful. While for men, it is the exact opposite. Also I say this in full understanding of the history/present circumstances of white women who falsely accuse men of color of rape and the idea that numbers does not the truth make (ie Salem witch trial). However these cases stretch across race, class, sheer size, and status. It speaks squarely to moments of opportunity. When he had a chance, he did it. If there is a complaint to be had regarding the racial overtones of this - it is that Roman Polanski is running around without a care in the world. The complaint then is that whiteness and wealth has allowed him to get away where Cosby has no such "protection." However since I have little patience for the abuse of women, I think time is better served talking about how to stop women's rape and less lamenting that Cosby could not get away with it like Polanski. That just sounds stupid.
James Mullaney - I haven't read the particulars of the Polanski case in a long time, so please correct me if I'm wrong. He fled prosecution, was found guilty in absentia, and attempts were made for years to extradite him. So it's not like they didn't try get him. Cosby (and Sheen, if court cases come from it) is -- so far -- sitting in the U.S., and could theoretically be arrested. Now, I confess to not being up on the Cosby case either. Are any of the cases recent enough that he could be arrested? Are there plans to prosecute? I have no idea. I really don't care all that much about celebrities, so I only pick up information on this stuff from an occassional headline. But for Cosby to really be like Polanski, he'd have to flee to Europe and our government would then have to spend years trying to get him back. Still, I get your point.
About Polanski: Chinatown is still a great movie. Can you separate the creepy, pervert artist from his work? Not when he shoehorns himself into his film. I forgot that Polanski had a cameo in the movie. I had not seen it in years until a few years ago, and I did manage to lose myself in the story right up until the point the little creep showed up on screen. Just seeing him was like a rubber band yanking me back into reality, and I think this goes to Stephen Wilkinson's point above (I think...I'm rushed, and can't go through all the previous posts) about why Cosby's shows got pulled from the air while Sheen's show is still on in reruns. Everyone knows Sheen is a grubby little perv. It's his whole act. Cosby's act was the polar opposite. Like I said somewhere above, Cosby had a lot farther to fall. And you can't help but look at him differently now. It's the same reaction I had to Polanksi while watching Chinatown. When Polanksi shows up for his brief cameo, I was momentarily yanked completely out of the movie.
Anyway, I've commented more on these cases than I ever thought I would. I ultimarely don't care about Cosby or Sheen or Roman Polanski: I care about their victims (less so about Sheen's, who had some obligation on their part to open their eyes), which we all seem to agree on. So there's really not much more any of us can say, except I hope you all had a happy Thanksgiving.
Debra Ann Collins - Yes, please explain. Actually, don't bother, because it is the rationale for taking the time to arrest the murderer of nine people in a church in Charleston while another, not-yet-known-offense, in Chicago streets with cameras rolling, a police officer empties his 9mm magazine into the body of a Black teenager. Same logic.
Alonzo McDowell - Just goes to show that white privilege exist and that as much as white people don't want to admit it they is no equality for people of color in America. If you are still in denial about the racism, sexism, classism and religious intolerance after all that has gone on this year, you have serious mental problems and are delusional.
Stephen Wilkinson - There IS "white privilege" , but THIS is not it - by any stretch of the imagination. Desperately reaching for 'proof' in a situation like this not only makes us look bad, but is DANGEROUS.
Because the WAY we arrive at our thoughts and beliefs is more important in many ways than what we actually believe in many ways!
Raven Black - he is still a rapist for 50 years. CHARLIE ADMITTED HE WAS A HOE. A non self destructive women would not let him go in raw, no matter what he said . i KNOW women LOVE badboys but still.
Gregory Bsggett - I don't get the comparison but then I never do
Muhammad Rasheed - Rick wrote: “Let's not forget that most of Cosby's accusers were black..."
Muhammad Rasheed -
Muhammad Rasheed - Two questions, Rick:
1.) What does "most" mean in your universe?
2.) Who were you trying to remind not to forget what "most" means?
Muhammad Rasheed - Even if I got a couple of them switched, there is still a vast majority of white accusers.
Muhammad Rasheed - Rick wrote: “…and several were paid to keep silent."
Attorneys often advise people to settle just so they won't spend more money & time in a lengthy battle. It's a fallacy to suggest that settling automatically means people are guilty.
Muhammad Rasheed - Rick wrote: “At what point does overwhelming evidence prove something?"
Overwhelming evidence of what? Tell me.
Muhammad Rasheed - Rick wrote: “Sleeping with someone whey you have HIV? Not a big deal if you use protection."
You know HIV can turn into the deadly AIDs virus, right? "Deadly" is not a big deal now?
Rick wrote: “Allegedly drugging and raping over FIFTY women. Sure, that's no biggie."
It could be a big deal if you can prove it to be true. The evidence leans more in the direction of this being a typical gold-digging, west coast money grab, orchestrated by Dolores M. Troian, who is trying to win a multi-million dollar law suit that she'll share among the people that agree to sign on to it as witnesses.
Rick Drew - Ahh. So it's OK - they were white.
Muhammad Rasheed - Remember the part where you made a big fanfare about "reminding" everyone that most of the accusers were black, even though they were conspicuously NOT by everyone else who could actually count?
Let's start there. Please explain yourself, and the point you THOUGHT you were trying to make.
Muhammad Rasheed - Stephen wrote: “I am afraid I have to side solidly with Rick on this one.”
Stephen wrote: “In this day and age you have to assume sexual disease transmissible status with ANYONE you plan to sleep with- being surreptitiously drugged and f**cked? not so much!”
lol Well, fortunately for Cosby, none of these allegations took place in “this day and age.” In fact, in his swingers era, offering people pills if they wanted to buzz or relax was just as common as offering them a drink, so your point is moot.
Stephen wrote: “ (caveat - some of the participants willingly took the drug from Cosby with the understanding that it was a 'happy' drug not a 'knockout drug' lol)”
All the ones who were drugged had willingly took the pills from him when offered, and knew exactly what they were, and what they would do.
Muhammad Rasheed - James wrote: “Oh, c'mon, this is just silly. Stephen Wilkinson and Rick Drew are spot on.”
No, they’re not.
James wrote: “The big difference is that these women with evident low self-esteem climbed willingly into the sack with disgusting Sheen, but were drugged and dragged into the sack by even more disgusting Cosby.”
Nonsense. In both cases the two groups of women represented the groupie phenomenon, who wanted to have sex with the two celebrities for whatever usual reasons women want to have sex with celebrities. There was no doubt some level of irresponsibility involved with both groups, but the ones who had unprotected sex were the MOST irresponsible for the obvious (Sheen) reasons.
James wrote: “Another pretty big difference is everyone knew Sheen was a lowlife crawling with every social disease under the sun. Who was surprised by this 'revelation?' Cosby, on the other hand, was Mr. Nice and Wholesome, so he had a LOT farther to fall."
Let me help you out: The meme is pointing out hypocrisy. Sheen irresponsibly had sex while carrying a disease that is well known able to morph into something deadly, that has already killed millions of people. That was NOT a light matter. Despite this, like you, people are playing light with the situation anyway, and don’t think it a big deal that Sheen be allowed to keep his livelihood. “He was just playin’ around! C’MON! Lighten up! Everyone knows Sheen’s a party god!”
Cosby is being attacked by a greedy, predatory lawyer, who is counting on gossip hungry sheep to agree to throw him under the bus so she can sway a potential jury/judge with the fake court of public opinion and somehow pull this big money out of him, despite NO crime having been proven. At ALL.
Muhammad Rasheed - Stephen wrote: "Some women have claimed that he didnt tell them, he says he has..."
Interestingly, even though the Cosby accusers often continued to have physical relations with him, under Dolores' greedy/drooling prodding, they now say that they didn't know they were drugged, and claim rape, etc. Cosby says none of that is true and he did nothing wrong.
But some of you say you see no comparison here...?
Raven Black - Well even if Charlie didn't tell them, he has a reputation that if he was a woman i wouldnt sleep with her and IF i did, it wouldn't be raw,.
Raven Black - what i am saying is if i had a daughter and she wanted to be in show business, if i found out that she was gonna meet up with Cosby and have coffee at his place or something , a bunch of alarm bells would not have gone off BEFORE THE SCANDAL BROKE of course. But if my daughter said i am gonna meet up with Charlie Sheen for private audition i would be like HELL NO.
Because he always said what time it was, Cosby was a secret.
Muhammad Rasheed - The "Cosby was a secret" part is where my issues lie. What was a secret exactly? The unproven allegations put together in order to score a $100 million payout?
Muhammad Rasheed - Stephen wrote: “...Sheen's character mirrors his real life one, as a boorish, generally unwholesome drunk, drug addled, sleeping with prostitutes and women of low repute AND IN HIS PRIVATE LIFE, Sheen was absolutely the same, albeit more so… Sheen never set himself up as some exemplar of conduct neither did he make social commentary”
Are you laying out a case for never having allowed Sheen to have a show to begin with? Because otherwise you’re babbling. If Cosby isn’t allowed his livelihood because he was merely accused by a group of women who were told to do so for no other reason than the promise of a Los Angeles Law Suit Pay Out, then why isn’t Sheen’s livelihood snatched away for being an ACTUAL, PROVEN SCUMBAG?!
Stephen wrote: “Cosby's behavior also spanned a generation so...”
Weren’t Hefner’s last wives old enough to be his grandchildren?
Stephen wrote: “We dont like the idea of losing an icon, and for black people bereft of heroes - especially heroes endorsed by white people…”
Stephen wrote: “…losing one is particularly hard, but I think we do ourselves a disservice and more than that, GREAT HARM by finding offense where none is intended and where none exists.”
Blatant societal hypocrisy – especially along racial lines -- will ALWAYS offend me, and I will call it out when I catch it. You may love it all you like though. Do YOU, Stephen.
Stephen wrote: “BY ANY MEASURE, Cosby is a disgusting douchebag…”
Apparently you’re fond of using the measure of unprovable gossiping magic. This doesn't do you, nor anyone who lines up behind that opinion, any credit. Being an uncritical sheep, willingly tossed to-n-fro by every casual National Enquirer headline, isn’t a good look for anybody.
Stephen wrote: “…and I HAVE read the deposition that recently was made public and also unreleased court documents in some of the cases he settled.”
Oh, good! Then you won’t have a problem cutting-n-pasting the exact parts that prove Cosby is a “disgusting douchebag” without a shadow of a doubt, yes?
Do it. I’m pumped.
Muhammad Rasheed - Gregory wrote: "I don't get the comparison but then I never do"
Cosby was merely accused of wrong doing, denied it, and no one can prove he did it... and the accusers themselves have numerous contradictions in their statements. Despite this, his name is sullied and his legacy is being dismantled.
By contrast, Charlie Sheen is a proven and admitted scumbag who's allowed to keep his livelihood.
Muhammad Rasheed - Raven wrote: “he is still a rapist for 50 years.”
Based on what? An attorney built a predatory fake case in hopes of winning a $100 million dollars from the wealthy celebrity. In order to pull it off she coaxes these women to lie while using their Grade B acting skills to cry on camera. That’s literally all the evidence you have that Cosby is a rapist.
Raven wrote: “CHARLIE ADMITTED HE WAS A HOE.”
By stark contrast, Cosby admitted that he didn’t do the things Troiani and her cronies claim he did. They also lack a single shred of evidence to prove that they are telling the truth. Now what?
Muhammad Rasheed - Stephen wrote: “There IS ‘white privilege’ , but THIS is not it - by any stretch of the imagination.”
Meanwhile it STILL looks like white privilege. The black guy was accused, but not proven guilty, and is punished. The white guy is admittedly guilty of “douchebag behaviors” that the black guy is merely accused of (without proof) but is conspicuously NOT punished.
Stephen wrote: “Desperately reaching for 'proof' in a situation like this not only makes us look bad, but is DANGEROUS.”
Being a blind sheep, following along behind that Troiani and believing every line of her scripts is what makes us look bad and is truly dangerous.
Stephen wrote: “Why? Because the WAY we arrive at our thoughts and beliefs is more important in many ways than what we actually believe in many ways!”
Well, the anti-Cosby crowd have apparently decided to forego even the attempt to arrive at their own thoughts, and are perfectly content with swallowing prepackaged thoughts that the mindless crowd agrees with.
Muhammad Rasheed - Nishani wrote: “Also important to note that most cases are over the statute of limitations. I have a problem with that concept given that people who are raped suffer a lifetime.”
I agree with you in spirit, it’s just that in this particular case, none of those people were raped. These allegations are a con-job put together by that Troiani. You would be better served directing your womanist/feminist powers in the direction of REAL rape cases.
Nishani wrote: “But be that as it may, I agree with Stephen Wilkinson.”
Nishani wrote: “It's time to stop the nonsense and deal with what the man did..... not allegedly but actually did.”
You just stepped off into the land of magic & Make Believe, Nishani.
Nishani wrote: “I also find this generally offensive as a woman given that we are always put in the position of lying until proven without a doubt undeniably truthful. While for men, it is the exact opposite.”
Under normal circumstances I would stand right by you in this, but I am not willing to burn an innocent man so that that Troiani person may be enriched at his expense. I am not willingly to give up Cosby as a martyr to that cause while there are PLENTY of real life rapists who ACTUALLY did what he is merely [greedily] accused of. Btw it wasn’t lost on me that despite Ceelo Green’s rapist thing coming out, it was immediately ignored…? What happened to that investigation? See, it’s foolishness like that that makes the Cosby allegations even MORE fake to me.
Nishani wrote: “Also I say this in full understanding of the history/present circumstances of white women who falsely accuse men of color of rape and the idea that numbers does not the truth make (ie Salem witch trial).”
Admittedly, both of these items are part of the reason as to why I’m willing to fight for him.
Nishani wrote: “However these cases stretch across race, class, sheer size, and status.”
No, they don’t. They stretch only as far as the promise of sharing in that $100 million payout and no further.
Nishani wrote: “It speaks squarely to moments of opportunity.”
Exactly. Troiani (and whoever HER handlers are) see the opportunity to punish the wealthy and powerful black man who dared attempt topurchase NBC, and enriched themselves in the process.
Nishani wrote: “When he had a chance, he did it.”
He said he didn’t, in direct contrast to the blood sucking lawyer’s predatory claims. I’m not inclined to believe her.
Nishani wrote: “...I think time is better served talking about how to stop women's rape and less lamenting that Cosby could not get away with it like Polanski. That just sounds stupid.”
That’s not my argument. I would rather see Sheen stripped of his fortune and legacy too if Cosby has to go down over fake nonsense.
Clark Willis - That should be prosecutable.
Rick Drew - Bill Cosby was like the uncle everyone trusted. You'd invite him into your home, spend time with him, listen to him. Trust him. Sheen? Shit, he's Quagmire from "Family Guy." Everyone knows he's an asshole and probably has more diseases than the CDC can keep track of. I would have trusted a wife or daughter with a dinner out with Cosby. Sheen? Not on your life. That's the difference.
Muhammad Rasheed - What does any of that have to do with destroying Cosby's legacy over unproven and slimy accusations, versus allowing Sheen to keep his legacy even though he's a sleezeball?
See Also:Rejecting the Call