Sunday, May 20, 2018
Caping for Hillary...?
Jason Farmer - [FB THREAD] M. Rasheed defends Hillary over Bernie supporters
Muhammad Rasheed - Your post link implies another false equivalency fallacy. I voted for Hillary because she was going to further Obama's agenda for building up the middle class and the Black communities with long-ranging tech initiatives, not because I'm uncritically pro-Hillary.
Jason Farmer - I agree that you were caping for the Becky who spoke of your people like animals in a successful push to bring mass incarceration to our communities. You disagree?
Muhammad Rasheed - I do disagree. Because of the Obama endorsement, I decided to accept her apology since she was actively partnering with the Obama administration to help reform the criminal justice system her family helped break. The acknowledgment of her wrong, with the actions that went with a true repentance and the partnering with the Obama vision I believed in, is why I felt she deserved my vote.
Jason Farmer - 😂😂😂 GTFOH! I could keep posting about the damage she's done to communities of color throughout her career, but let's just save some time, since this petulant act of attention seeking is really just an extension of an argument we've already spent enough time on. The president has the power to pardon federal prisoners. As president, she could have pardoned all of the federal victims of mass incarceration without anyone else cosigning. You can go to Clinton's criminal justice platform. Nowhere in there does she commit to that. Why? That would be a substantive move toward correcting what she did, but it would also be a turnoff to those White swing voters the Clintons have always played you for to be seen doing to much for the Blacks.
Muhammad Rasheed - There would definitely be a certain amount of political strategizing involved in any partisan candidate's publicity. I don't think that's a reason to automatically believe she wouldn't follow through on her Obama partnership just because she refrained from tipping her hand to her rivals.
Muhammad Rasheed - I am interested in why you are willing to cape for Constand and Troiani an'em in the way you are --- over that specific topic --- while in the same breath distrustful of Clinton for 100% reasonable reasons.
Jason Farmer - "I don't think that's a reason to automatically believe she wouldn't follow through on her Obama partnership just because she refrained from tipping her hand to her rivals."
Tell that to the Mothers of the Movement and Ferguson. But listen brother, ain't nobody talking about some "Obama partnership" that wouldn't have come close to correcting the damage she's wrought on communities of color. You're big mad that people believe Bill Cosby is a rapist, making little strawman pictures equating believing a person was raped to caping for Becky and not believing a White woman could lie about being raped, but you yourself were caping for the Becky that mass incarcerated your people (and more).
It's actually pretty damn ironic. Belief that someone was raped in one situation does not dismiss the existence of systemic racism. You, however, were willing to dismiss how your Becky implemented systemic racism on millions of Black people in your caping for her.
Jason Farmer - Becky so untrustworthy we can NEVER EVER EVER believe even one case where she was raped by a Black man.
Let's make Becky our leader!
Jason Farmer - But Becky said she might maybe partner with T'Challa to build some community centers in Oakland and I believe her!
Muhammad Rasheed - lol It's all I had. Between her and Bernie, she's the one that partnered with the Obama vision I believe in.
Muhammad Rasheed - The damage the Clinton admin caused to our community was built upon damage caused by previous administrations going back quite awhile. You know this as well as I. All we could hope is for her to add to the reversal attempts Obama kick started, with a plan for later elected officials to do the same, until eventually we can see the Big Change. It's not realistic to think any one president can reverse all of that in one fell swoop.
Jason Farmer - Oh cool. So let's make Becky our leader and hope that she does less damage this time around than she's able to incrementally correct (over time) the next time she hits the campaign trail, visiting Black churches and carrying hot sauce to convince us to vote for her.
Jason Farmer - Correction: Cape for her.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jason wrote: "...making little strawman pictures equating believing a person was raped to caping for Becky..."
The way you dismissed the defense's argument entirely to take up the prosecution's cause of focusing solely on the Troiani-narrated deposition, functioned as a belief system. This while you pretended your position was "about the facts." You put your faith in becky and gave her all of your benefit of the doubt.
I don't have a problem with the woman's movement, but as much as I would like to be all-in supportive of MeToo at all levels, I'm not the one that invented racism. When a certain demographic needs me to believe her at her word, the justification memo will need to be VERY strong.
Muhammad Rasheed - Did you vote for bernie, or did you sit that one out?
Jason Farmer - We actually debated using the evidence of his words, but we're not going to circle the drain on that again. This is about your petulant cartoon and caping for Becky.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol My cartoon imagery represents the impression you lot gave me during that argument.
Muhammad Rasheed - ...especially your brother.
Jason Farmer - Yeah, well, that's your impression. I just hit you with your reality.
Muhammad Rasheed - You just reinforced the impression since it only functions as carry-over from that thread as you pointed out.
Please note that I didn't deny Hillary's problematic career in my assessment.
Jason Farmer - You actually did that thing you tend to do, when confronted with evidence you don't want to deal with, of claiming people who believe it are brainwashed or sheep and attacking the source as a way to avoid the validity of what was presented. Just one of your responses to criticism of her from that link:
"I don't give a shit about your indoctrination clips. Keep it, and peddle it elsewhere."
Jason Farmer - M. Rasheed wrote: "You just reinforced the impression since it only functions as carry-over from that thread as you pointed out."
Let's clear that up too. Me checking you here isn't defending Becky. You weren't attacking Becky. You were attacking a number of other Black men in your deluded attempts to defend one rapist.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Jason... that's what you did to the links I posted. You dismissed everything I used that convinced me of my stance as "conspiracy theory," and didn't even try to see it objectively.
Jason Farmer - I spoke on Cosby's admissions. Again, circling the drain. You did it in the link I posted as well.
Muhammad Rasheed - Pointing out that Hillary was working with the Obama admin at the time to help in correcting her family's past mistakes was an example of me avoiding the validity of the complaints of her family's past mistakes?
Muhammad Rasheed - Jason wrote: "Me checking you here isn't defending Becky."
You said you believed her when she claimed to be raped, so how could your protests at the cartoon be seen otherwise? Curious. What are you supposed to be checking me over then?
Jason Farmer - I'm checking you over your nonsensical decision to attack multiple Black people in your intent to defend one Black rapist.
And Muhammad, let's not pretend I didn't provide you a direct quote. Stop it with the strawmans.
"I don't give a shit about your indoctrination clips. Keep it, and peddle it elsewhere."
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Maybe you should focus more on deciding to convince your multiple nonsensical fellows to stop caping for becky.
Jason Farmer - Yawn. Another petulant deflection.
Jason Farmer - You caped for the very Becky who promoted mass incarceration. You have no room to talk.
Jason Farmer - How are the Black people in Libya doing since Hillary's involvement there?
Muhammad Rasheed - The group all decided to believe the prosecution's argument as presented, and then came to fuss at me about it. What impression did you think you would leave?
Deciding to vote for Hillary because she had the endorsement of the president I trusted isn't really "caping for becky" in the strict since that you're doing for Constand and Co.
To me anyway. But I'm open to hearing your argument, of course.
Jason Farmer - Your full of yourself. In your judgment we're caping for Becky, but your grace will be so kind as to entertain our arguments to the contrary, before rendering his verdict? You were caping for the Becky responsible for mass incarceration and the criminalized way Blacks are treated to this day.
Muhammad Rasheed - I probably am full of myself to some degree, Jason. You're not helping by having this squishy tantrum of yours.
Are you going to fight for real or just toss these word salads at me? Throw down your rod.
Jason Farmer - "I don't give a shit about your indoctrination clips. Keep it, and peddle it elsewhere." ~*M. Rasheed defending his Becky Boo.*
Jason Farmer - Tantrum? You got in your feelings and drew a cartoon, because you're still not over how the other thread.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm a cartoonist, Jason. lol Is that how you've determined that I'm "in my feelings" because I drew a cartoon?
Jason Farmer - BTW, is that some Freudian thing, that the Becky in your cartoon resembles Hillary more than Constand?
Muhammad Rasheed - Actually, I changed my mind about drawing Constand, and directed my gaze towards Dolores Troiani instead, since she's the puppet master's director in this.
Jason Farmer - Nah. It was the what you drew a cartoon about and who you decided to go after with it.
Muhammad Rasheed - Ha! That's only because it was you four that were front and center in the thread and putting up a fight. Why NOT you?
Muhammad Rasheed - I voted for the becky that called me a "super-predator," whose husband placed milestone anti-Black policies in law that devastated our communities. I did so because she admitted her mistake and actively worked with Obama to reverse the damage her family caused.
If it wasn't for the latter, and Obama's endorsement (and fierce campaigning on her behalf and what that represented) I would not have. Prolly.
Jason Farmer - She reversed mass incarceration? News to me. How are those Black people in Libya doing?
Jason Farmer - You know, after she pushed for our invasion there, after having claimed to learn her lesson from Iraq.
Muhammad Rasheed - No, she didn't reverse mass incarceration itself, but she was part of Obama's team to put in place the criminal reform initiatives that she would build upon as POTUS herself.
Muhammad Rasheed - No way. Clinton's foreign policy position was as shitty as any other western asshat.
Jason Farmer - That's a whole lot of hopes and dreams, brother. I already told you the president has the power to pardon federal prisoners, as many as they want. Why didn't she commit to pardoning all those affected by her mistake?
Muhammad Rasheed - Libya is in terrible condition.
Jason Farmer - M. Rasheed wrote: "Clinton's foreign policy position was as shitty as any other western asshat."
It actually was. She was the one who pushed Obama to invade, but nevertheless, that's a pretty low bar you're setting for your Becky.
Muhammad Rasheed - She wouldn't tip her hand like that to her political rivals. She would lose the fence-sitter voters she was hoping to take from Bernie.
Jason Farmer - Didn't I say that?
Jason Farmer - She didn't want to scare off those White voters the Clintons have historically sold us out for.
Muhammad Rasheed - Yes, but you asked me anyway.
Jason wrote: "...that's a pretty low bar you're setting for your Becky."
It's the nature of the game. There's no universal POTUS where we all will approve of all of their decisions and positions.
Muhammad Rasheed - I voted for her for my own reasons, but of course she was problematic.
Jason Farmer - I did ask, but are you telling me you think she was going to follow through?
Muhammad Rasheed - Because of Obama's endorsement, I was willing to give her the chance to disappoint me.
Jason Farmer - The same Obama who called our Black youth "thugs" for the cameras? Besides, you have to know that endorsement was politics.
Muhammad Rasheed - Obama believed in 'respectability politics.' There is no universal POTUS.
Jason Farmer - Hillary is the Becky who set Trump up to be president.
Muhammad Rasheed - Nah. Trump is POTUS because the GOP cheated using their Karl Rove voter suppression apparatus.
Jason Farmer - Your Becky set you up. She propped him up, believing that if America only had a choice between her or Trump, America would have no choice but to vote for her.
Muhammad Rasheed - I saw more of an over-confident arrogance on her based on how uncouth Trump was. The 'set up' was purely behind the scenes using vote suppression cheating.
Jason Farmer - [ARTICLE] How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately “elevated” Donald Trump with its “pied piper” strategy
Muhammad Rasheed - It's a good strategy, and it would have succeeded if it wasn't for the vote suppression thing. Hillary thought that she would be able to tap into Obama's unprecedented rock star voting numbers --- which actually overwhelmed the vote suppression attempts twice --- which is why she was so over-confident.
Jason Farmer - Propping up White supremacists is a good strategy? Do you hear the things you're saying in defense of her? It would have succeeded. What is this, Scooby Doo? It didn't succeed. But you know who is least affected by that failure? The Becky you caped for.
Jason Farmer - That's about as White privilege a strategy as it gets. A White woman elevated racists, risking their getting elected, as a gamble to attain power for herself.
Muhammad Rasheed - All the high-end racists are signed up on the GOP side anyway, so caricaturing them and forcing them upfront in their org is a good thing. Political campaigning is all about Big Money strategizing. She didn't lose because of her strategy; she lost because she wasn't as popular as Obama.
Jason Farmer - She lost because she's a choke artist who does not do well against populist candidates, like the White supremacist her gamble put in the White House.
Muhammad Rasheed - She lost because her rivals cheated.
Jason Farmer - So did Obama's and the rivals of people who weren't choke artists elevating racists to have a shot at victory.
Jason Farmer - I'm calling it a night, but I would think you would have found a bit more nuance in our positions than how your cartoon characterizes them for someone able to find so many excuses for Hillary.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol I didn't have any excuses. She was an asshat, who seemed to reform. Since the POTUS that I actually wanted to stick around for a 3rd term endorsed her, it allowed me to lower my guard.
Muhammad Rasheed - Political cartoons aren't supposed to be nice or nuanced, Jason. hahahaha Sometimes they can be mean in their messaging.
But you work out. You're tough.
Jason Farmer - No doubt. But satire should expose an underlying truth. This is a deliberate perversion of the truth. That's not even an exaggeration of our positions.
Muhammad Rasheed - To me it perfectly exposes this underlying truth as demonstrated in this image:
Muhammad Rasheed - That's your entire argument right there, and your justification is weak to the point of nonexistent. So the impression it leaves is captured in my cartoon.
Jason Farmer - My brother can speak for himself, but Cosby has over 50 accusers, of varying race. No one was arguing the purity of White women. They said, as you quoted, Cosby is a rapist.
Muhammad Rasheed - The "50+ accusers" were not legit, and only a part of Troiani's grifter circus performance. She was counting on the public reacting the way they did to the number of people she strategically paraded in front of them. The fact that each of their accusations dissipates into nothing at the slightest touch of scrutiny reveals all.
Jason Farmer - Comments like that betray your lack of knowledge of the case. The vast majority of those accusers came along long after what you described as "Troiani's grifter circus performance." They came along long after the settlement was reached. That you seem unaware of basic facts and the timeline of events tells all. But again, circling the drain.
Bottom line: They weren't legit according to you. That doesn't mean you get to dismiss that there were 50+ accusers to feed this narrative that we're caping for Becky. What you presented was little more than a strawman in the guise of satire.
Rufus Farmer - His take on the Clinton stuff is hilarious too. "And it would have succeeded if not for those meddling kids!"
Jason Farmer - On a side note, add some hang time and my avatar is a keeper. He's even got muscle definition. 😂
Rufus Farmer - He really created a piece of art just to say, "And I'll continue to support that rapist. Phooey to the rest of y'all! 😤"
Rufus Farmer - Bill Cosby is a rapist.
Muhammad Rasheed - He's not a rapist. That's why the prosecution had to perform all of those tricks to get the verdict they wanted.
Muhammad Rasheed - Rufus wrote: "'And it would have succeeded if not for those meddling kids!'"
Here: [VIDEO] Greg Palast: Cross Check- Motherlode of Vote Purge Scams
Rufus Farmer - M. Rasheed wrote: "He's not a rapist."
Rufus Farmer - It certainly isn't my intention to make light of the situation (rape, and Cosby being a terrible person). I do find certain comments to be so incredibly outrageous that they provoke laughter.
Muhammad Rasheed - I understand, Tril. I often feel the same way on a variety of topics. The concept isn't alien to me.