Mortsion: Rickpossible

 

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CITATION
Rasheed, Muhammad. "Mortsion: Rickpossible." Cartoon. The Official Website of Cartoonist M. Rasheed 13 Jul 2021. Pen & ink w/Adobe Photoshop color.

ARTIST'S DESCRIPTION

This #MRasheedCartoons image was created as the cover to an argument I engaged in with my buddies over on a certain message board. Here's the set up to the melodrama:

"Hey darling - miss me? Just popping by to let you know that our forum sort of got hacked, which sadly resulted in the 52 pages of hilarity you gave us being lost forever, as well as anything else posted after 2019. On the plus side, some joker popped up batting for you on the old thread, and you will not believe the racist shit he's saying "in defence" of black people. I don't know if you still lurk on the forum, but if you're looking for a little inspiration for another comic, consider checking out the old thread again (though I think Long Tom will still ban you if you try to make a new account) It's amazing what this guy is saying "in defence" of black people - you'll love him." ~webkilla

It turns out it was me. I was the guy. When I saw that the thread in question had reset back to where I first found it last year, I decided to help them out by building the flame war back up. :P 

I created a new account...



...with a liberal, white male, closeted gay persona, who worked in a university as a career academic, and then engaged the guys as an M. Rasheed apologist (they loved it). For those inclined to read it, I took the liberty of capturing the entire argument and posting it below in case the original gets "hacked" again.

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WebcomicPassersby - First off, I would assume people here know what Quora is - an extensive question-and-answer website that's in the top 100 in the world, rising above the competition through rewarding long answers (and automatically collapsing Yahoo Answers-style one-sentence bullshit) and letting users follow each other so that the top writers soon accumulate 10,000s followers. There's a bunch of other stuff there, but that's the key.

Anyway, while it has an outsized Indian userbase, it is still a website that was founded in the Silicon Valley, and so the majority of users are Americans discussing American things. That obviously includes politics to a great extent, and is obviously skewed pretty heavily Democratic (Trump supporters don't tend to be good writers.) Eventually, Quora decided to introduce an equivalent to subreddits (I guess?) with Spaces, and Republican and Democratic ones soon became the biggest ones. The Democratic one, War Donkey, now features its own daily political one-panel webcomic. The most convenient way to view it is from the author's account here: https://www.quora.com/profile/Muhammad-Rasheed-4/spaces

I suppose the devil's advocates amongst you will note that the guy can certainly draw pretty well by webcomics' standards, and the daily update schedule is good too. However, it's as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face with its message, and is often reliant on the enormous text bubbles as well. Essentially, I believe that if Sinfest is on BWW, then this should definitely be here too. The fact that the "Space" it's posted in also has ~10k followers also makes it a little more urgent then most bad webcomics that generally seem to have considerably smaller readerships.

ToothBrush - i'm getting a 404 error from the link. took out the "/spaces" from the url and then it worked.

TangorineTamborine - I like the guy's art style. The only thing I'd say would probably help him is killing off some word salad since he explains everything anyway and/or extending from the single panel in some cases. He could have nixed the bubble to something shorter and the point would have been clear.

But besides that, yeah, the context lol. Like this comic where he portrays futuristic white supremacists as having "Founding Father" wigs. Subtle.

Or this one where he portrays a white couple adopting a black child as racist.

Tip of the iceberg, of course. I'm kind of torn, though. I see comics like this from newspapers/editorial magazines like "The Week" constantly. Sinfest is undoubtedly a webcomic. This is almost... not? Eh, semantics I guess.

Crazy J - Yeah, this look like one of those political comics you'd find in the local alternative newspaper, such as LA Weekly or Mother Jones. This is nothing more than propaganda, and bad propaganda at that. Newspaper worthy art style, but Red Panels style subtlety.

The horrible thing is that this guy is not funny. A good political cartoon will make you laugh, even if the joke is pointed at you. This doesn't.

idkwayta - The only pure politic comic I like is Kelly

the rest can die

anyway I don't think this comic has more than 20 pages let alone 50

WebcomicPassersby - Waited for a couple of days to see if this gets any more attention. Guess now I might as well say that to me, if something's bad, it's generally better to nip it in the bud, no? What good would it do to wait until there are, say, several hundred of them? (And at a daily update rate, that's not too far off.) I also think that the size of its current readership would make it a greater priority over the run-of-the-mill poor political comic. (Like the ones discussed being discussed in the other threads.)

CartoonFun - Crazy J wrote: "This is nothing more than propaganda"

All politics are heavily-biased propaganda. Since birds of a feather flock together, that doesn't make the comic bad. Unless you think all propaganda is bad anyway.

Crazy J wrote: "The horrible thing is that this guy is not funny."

"Funny" isn't universal it's notoriously subjective. If you think everyone should laugh at the exact same things then that's a clue you need more diversity in your life.

webkilla - Haha this thread is still there? Oh right... it was started in '18

damn, 52 pages of flaming gone

@CartoonFun... Crazy's point still stands - a good political cartoon will make you laugh, even if the joke is pointed at you, because what its really doing is pointing out a flaw in your logic and ribbing you for it. Now whether that ribbing is good-natured or not, that's usually what determines if it can be perceived as funny to the butt of the joke as well

CartoonFun - I get your point, but my point is that humor styles vary across cultures and age groups, so what my granddad would laugh at would be corny to me as an example. Unless you are using "clever" in place of "funny" then it would make better sense. There's really no such thing as a universal funny... even the greatest comedians of all time only capture a portion of the humor markets. I never thought Steve Martin was funny, but I can't deny he's a successful professional funny-man, you know? He's just not funny to me and there are pro-comedians who just aren't funny to other people not in their fan base. That's normal. I don't think it makes sense to dismiss any comic just because it's not funny to a particular demographic when we can also agree that the dude's style is competently solid.

@webkilla... also there's a difference between "a good political cartoon" versus a competent political cartoon when we're evaluating whether it should be labeled as a Bad Webcomic for our purposes.

webkilla - Agreed - that's why I generally note in reviews of that kind of comics that one can't really evaluate the message, since its bound to be biased, but one can observe if the message makes sense.

In the case of this comic... well... have you read the review I wrote? Rasheed's comics are insane.

CartoonFun - Yes, I saw it that's how I got to this thread. :) His stuff is definitely triggering but he also is writing in a wagon train around a group who gets the shit end of a whole lot of sticks. I do see your point but it's hard not to see where he's coming from once I get pass the loudness of it. There's definitely a lot of angles we could take in our approach to it. Your approach seems to be hard core "fuck you" antagonistic presumably based on how this legendary flame war went. lol

webkilla - CF wrote: "he also is writing in a wagon train around a group who gets the shit end of a whole lot of sticks"

well, he certainly seems to think that him and his chosen few are beset on all sides. The problem with that vision of doom and gloom of his, is that it is CLEARLY blown so far out of proportion that it doesn't make any sense anymore.

I mean, he put up a comic legit arguing that all this talk about the pentagon admiting to UFOs, is to distract people talking about giving him reperations. Dude is so self-centered that he can't seem to imagine anything what so ever happening, without it being related to him or his cause.

That's why I go hard on him - because he seems utterly incapable of taking a step back and going "Is it my demands that are unreasonable? Should I calm down a little?" - hell, he's made comics mocking other black people as "compromised" stooges if they start talking about wanting less than tons money and shit he demands The Compromised by M. Rasheed

CartoonFun - Yeah... that UFO one is crazy. He thinks that racism against African-Americans is so big that it is more important than beings from another world. I did see his other alien one you linked to where he said being a Muslim means he doesn't think aliens are a big deal, but still... it would still really be a big deal. lol How could it not be? He could put on a show all he wants, but if aliens landed he would shit his pants like all the rest of us and forget all about reparations.

His position on the black immigrants is where I think most of your "fuck you I don't care!" antagonism shines. I lived in Florida and in NJ and hung out with a bunch of black groups and they are pretty universal in disliking Black Americans but don't have a problem code switching and hypocritically pretending to be them if they can get something out of it. I can't pretend that Rasheed doesn't have a point when it comes to that, so blacks aren't all the same and his anger about it is deff legit. I don't know whether that warrants a "pass" from us or not, since it isn't my fight.

webkilla - CF wrote: "I lived in Florida and in NJ and hung out with a bunch of black groups and they are pretty universal in disliking Black Americans but don't have a problem code switching and hypocritically pretending to be them if they can get something out of it"

As a europenis I can't say much to that - but I still think that his portrayal of modern day african immigrants to the US is racist and strawmanned as fuck. I mean, he's not exactly subtle in his messaging (which was something he proudly stated in the forum thread, repeatedly)

Bringing the Division with Them by M. Rasheed

GRIFT LOBBY: Twisting an Overdue Justice Claim into a Cash-for-Everybody Stall Tactic by M. Rasheed

Congress Will Pay It, But Even if They Weren't... by M. Rasheed

Spitting on the Bottom Caste by M. Rasheed

A Shameless Appropriation of My Awareness Month by My Greedy Rivals by M. Rasheed - and he doesn't give a shit about how other people have been oppressed. "Melanite" is now a word

The 'Flat Blackness' Smothering Effect by M. Rasheed

Confessions from the Chronic Jabberer by M. Rasheed - oh but apparently those immigrants are only rich because their ancestors sold other africans as slaves to whitey

Weaponizing 'Turn the Other Cheek' Against God's People by M. Rasheed

The Voice of My Enemy Through the Mouth of My Skinfolk Fake Friend by M. Rasheed - or its the kkk getting the immigrants to go after him

Marketing Plan Buy-In by M. Rasheed - or rasheed thinks that the immigrants are pushing kkk apologia

OPERATION: Erase/Replace, pt 1 by M. Rasheed - or that the immigrants are just colluding with the kkk and whitey

OPERATION: Erase/Replace, pt 2 by M. Rasheed

The True Nature of the False 'Xenophobia' Charge Against #ADOS by M. Rasheed

'Come to exploit our tired, our poor, our huddled masses yearning to breathe free' by M. Rasheed

The Ridiculous Hurdle of Fake Pan-African Skinfolk by M. Rasheed - this one in particular is really telling. Rasheed seems to think that all immigrants are rich, but beyond that it also rehashes his claim that his activism is "data-driven"... because calling everyone else racist is apparently in the data?

ok, i know thats a huge wall o' links - but its comics I've linked to in the comic, and I think they form a very strong case to demonstrate rasheed's maniacal racist bullshit. I can't speak for every black person in the US, or every modern day immigrant, but its obvious that the reality rasheed is presenting in his comics here simply doesn't exist - and that's why I put him on blast

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "but I still think that his portrayal of modern day african immigrants to the US is racist and strawmanned as fuck."

I can't really say that I'd see it as "racist" since they and Rasheed are all black people. It's like calling all those tribal wars we had going on back in ole europe "racist." The beef between those tribal ethnic groups who were all of one race is summed up best in an old quote from a famous harlem renaissance writer: "all skinfolk ain't kinfolk." Skin color allegiances just don't work and aren't a real thing which I think is really 'sheed's bottom line in his over-the-top way. I also saw a clip by comedian Tom Segura who had a similar point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7FZxbvyUJM



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I Saw A Fight | Tom Segura Stand Up Comedy | "Disgraceful" on Netflix

webkilla wrote: "Rasheed seems to think that all immigrants are rich"

That was the point of trump's controversial "shitholes" speech, that the USA's official immigration policy (Immigration & Naturalization Act of 1965) is to only allow over the educated elite from approved nations. 1965 was the year that all of these black immigrant communities here now were given permission to show up into our pro-immigrant society, and those waves didn't really begin until 1980. The median wealth for immigrant households is definitely in the "rich" range compared to African-Americans. Checkout page 42 (of 60) in this 2016 snapshot of the median wealth of Los Angeles, CA families, excerpted from this report: The Color of Wealth in Los Angeles | Duke University



webkilla wrote: "ok, i know thats a huge wall o' links"

Ya think?!

lol j/k

webkilla wrote: "but its obvious that the reality rasheed is presenting in his comics here simply doesn't exist"

I'll admit it seemed obvious from my original triggering, but I can't deny the facts he pulls from to make these crazy toons. It's not his fault that truth is stranger than fiction, and when he wraps his art around uncomfortable truths, it really does seem too crazy to believe. But again, I don't really have a dog in their fight; I only consider myself an academically-interested observer. I do want them to get their justice and all of that, but I sure as hell don't want a race war to happen on my watch.

CartoonFun - Here's a fun one where a Black conservative guy pointed out that the "average white household in these United States has a net worth of $110,729. Black Americans’ median net worth is less than 5 percent that of white Americans."

A Shocking Number: The average African-American family is poorer than the average family in India. | The National Review

It's "fun" because he only pulled that data to make fun of Democratic Party failures with hardcore, in-your-face facts, yet his data 100% supports Rasheed's messaging about the shit his people eat (from both sides!).

webkilla - Fair enough - however, the reasons behind those numbers, I don't think its by immigrants being told by the KKK to oppress african americans.

Its like... yes, I get it. And there are also a lot of poor white, hispanic and even asian people in the US U.S. Poverty Statistics | Federal Safety Net

I guess that is one of the biggest problems with rasheed's comic: He presents his bullshit so incredibly one-sided, mean-spirited and uses racist stereotypes like its going out of business - its pretty much impossible for someone who's not already sympathetic to his cause to even consider anything he claims to be even remotely valid, when he has comics basically calling black comedians who play to white audiences race traitors Pandering for White Gaze Favor by M. Rasheed

Why You Absolutely MUST 'Bank Black' by M. Rasheed - same shit for black owned banks, they're apparently also all traitors to his cause

The Generational Group Curse of Systemic Racism by M. Rasheed - hell he shits on black first time home-owners because that's apparently not fair either, seeing as not all black people own their own homes

Popping the Impotent Symbolism Bubble by M. Rasheed - even organ donations from white to black people are apparently racist?

I just can't take his shit seriously when he keeps cranking out comics like that.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "its pretty much impossible for someone who's not already sympathetic to his cause to even consider anything he claims to be even remotely valid"

I agree completely. Full disclosure: If it wasn't for the fact that I do have experience hanging out with a few different immigrant black ethnicities over the years, I wouldn't know what he was talking about when it comes to his ragging on the African immigrants the way he does, but because I did recognize what he was talking about as being real, it piqued my academic curiosity to explore some of his topics, so I can't just pretend there isn't a solid basis in fact behind most of his over-the-top, triggering caricature bullshit. For me, the real puzzle to solve is whether the way he's doing it is the best way FOR HIM? Or even for his ethnic group of Black Americans? It's not like they didn't try the other methods, right? MLK was the nicest guy who was always respectful and hated any kind of violence and didn't even use profanity...

...and we shot him in the head for trying to get his people what our government owed them for over a hundred years.

webkilla wrote: "the reasons behind those numbers, I don't think its by immigrants being told by the KKK to oppress african americans."

No, but I'm not sure if that's what Rasheed's point really is with these. His cartoons keep pointing out the strategic timing between when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 were signed, which ended forced jim crow segregation and opened the door to reparations/economic inclusion, but the Immigration & Naturalization Act of 1965 was signed IMMEDIATELY. That was clearly a counter move. So instead of giving the native, long-suffering blacks what they are owed, we can just pretend we took care of them by pointing to the combined black groups which gives the illusion that all blacks are doing GREAT. And if the Black Americans point out they are STILL poor like they were before the civil rights act was signed, we can just make up excuses and say they're whining and stuff, right? In the end, it's just regular old corrupt ass politics and games the elites play, but here we're not really used to seeing it from the group economic race angle, which is where Rasheed's work is interesting to me. I've honestly never seen cartoons like these before. Usually they're a LOT tamer, and a lot more typical boilerplate.

webkilla wrote: "there are also a lot of poor white, hispanic and even asian people in the US / He presents his bullshit so incredibly one-sided"

Well, to be fair, the multi-tiered immigrant lobby is the most powerful in Washington DC... I guarantee those poor immigrants absolutely will not be poor in the next generation since their representatives and orgs run with super-efficiency. On the other hand, the only political org that's technically focused on Rasheed's ethnic group is this little #ADOS foundation, which didn't even become registered as an official org until this year. The question now becomes, is Rasheed obligated to be "multi-sided" when all of his rivals have all of the resources and full access to the nation's wealth-building apparatus that we've been withholding from them since we first brought them here? As far as I know, he's not a formally trained journalist or anything that's obligated to show both sides of the issue or what have you, just an indie 'toonist upset that his people keep getting shafted. Just because I get triggered from reading it doesn't mean he's not well within the moral compass to make me triggered with his art. Unlike his, my political identity group is doing A-Okay after-all. I can take it. hahaha

webkilla wrote: "mean-spirited"

I can sic a goon cop to kill one of them and chances are, nothing will happen to my goon. Let an African-American cop do the same to my brother or sister and see how fast he get's the electric chair, right? Rasheed's "mean-spirited" toons are pretty impotent in comparison to what I have. White-owned Google can shut his li'l voice off anytime they want and if I decide not to read his shit at all...

...then what will he do? Be MORE mean-spirited? hahaha He doesn't have shit. Even if he individually is doing okay, his entire group has a median net worth of $200, which is predicted to drop to zero by 2053 while all of the immigrants who are poor RIGHT NOW will be rich, or well on their way to being rich. That's the difference between having access to the nation's benefits and being locked out because you're the undesirable "n-word."

webkilla wrote: "and uses racist stereotypes like its going out of business"

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on that one. So far as I've seen, Rasheed's characterizations are original designs he just made up that represent certain stock political positions. What "racist stereotypes" do you mean exactly? Maybe I just missed them. White people own all of mass media, at every level, and the images we project of ourselves are definitely what we already approve of since we alone control all media platforms. Consequently, I can't even think of what a racist stereotype of a white person would even look like... would it even make it through Hollywood's vetting filters if there were such a thing?

webkilla wrote: "when he has comics basically calling black comedians who play to white audiences race traitors"

That's a really good point and something I've been thinking about a lot since I read your review the other day. White people are definitely the dominant group in America and we have worked hard to keep Black Americans from sharing in the national household wealth. The only way an individual Black person can be successful is by assimilating into white companies and the white-approved life and basically give up their own culture. They would have to pander to us, to tell us what we want to hear, never say what their true feelings are about race issues... basically, they can't say or do anything that would get them fired or make them lose a contract because there's only so much room to let "successful" blacks in the door anyway, right? And there's a whole lot of them competing trying to get one of these diversity slots. So, you have to sell out if you want to make good money and have fame, but the cost is pretty high. If you still care about your own personal dignity and shit.

webkilla - You'll have to forgive me - again, as a europeen I'm far more used to various white nationalities and cultures being at each others throat over here, while "race A vs race B" issues is much rarer. So I lack that experience from my own life - however, in reading your posts, I do sense... white guilt?

I mean, you write "White people are definitely the dominant group in America and we have worked hard to keep Black Americans from sharing in the national household wealth" - the first half is a given, seeing that the US is still some 70% white, but the second bit is like... you say "we worked hard" as if you were part of it yourself up until recently. If anyone worked to keep the black man down in the us, then I doubt they were a majority, but instead powerful and influential minorities of rich people and politicians. The average working man probably didn't contribute very much to all that. A white lumberjack in the rural parts of portland isn't keeping a black man in mississipi down.

CF wrote: "For me, the real puzzle to solve is whether the way he's doing it is the best way FOR HIM? Or even for his ethnic group of Black Americans? It's not like they didn't try the other methods, right? MLK was the nicest guy who was always respectful and hated any kind of violence and didn't even use profanity..."

I do harp on this in the review, repeatedly IIRC. Rasheed being so militant and black&white, mocking any black person who disagrees with him as a race traitor (or any black person dating a non-black), that he's not really earning himsef any favors. He said as much himself in the thread that his comics are NOT meant to recruit or enlighten new recruits.

I think he's just like a lot of other toxic SJWs: He wants an excuse to mad and angry, so he's positioned himself and his impossible reperation demands so he'll never be satisfied: 100% of US GDP for one year given to his community? along with his vague and undefined demands of "Land and rule" - he doesn't want a solution, he just wants a way to justify calling other people names while pretending to the morally superior underdog. He's no different than the tumblr lunatics who demand all children be put on hormone blockers so that they "chose" their own gender once they've had some college classes on critical race, feminism and gender theory.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "as a europeen I'm far more used to various white nationalities and cultures being at each others throat over here, while 'race A vs race B' issues is much rarer."

Now that all of these communities of black immigrants are over here, and none of them are treated the way the Black Americans are treated, "race A vs race B" issues are much rarer for us as well. In fact, if anything, the black immigrants have proven that America's peculiar issue has always been about the targeting of one particular ethnic group.

webkilla wrote: "I do sense... white guilt?"

As an academic, I hold an interest that's more of a curious itch, wanting to see how the story unfolds in the historical record. I would much prefer not to lose my position in life because we fought a new civil war or whatever due to the backlash of all of this. Even though I'm technically liberal and my social and career circles are liberal, I do lean a bit in the other direction. I really don't think we can socially engineer the problems away, even though I may agree they may be worth solving. I just don't want any anarchist type shit going down while I'm alive. Does that make me white guilty? I'm not sure. My dad's family, spreading out over Oklahoma definitely have some dirt in their past the SJW's would love to know about, but I personally haven't done anything bad to anyone. I sincerely wish them well in their justice fights, but if I don't want to be here to see it that's my own personal mindset. I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to fight someone else's war and I actually don't feel guilty about it.

webkilla wrote: "but the second bit is like... you say 'we worked hard' as if you were part of it yourself up until recently."

Well, I'm an American and I own up to my country's history, the good and the bad. My mom is a 2nd gen immigrant and like I said, my dad has been here a while with his family going back to the revolutionary war. This is as much my county as it is Rasheed's, right? I just don't have an issue looking the facts in the eyes even if they trigger me. Maybe I'm alone in that way. I honestly think the conservatives are more honest at looking what's real in the eye than the liberals though, which is why I lean in that direction more often than my people know.

webkilla wrote: "If anyone worked to keep the black man down in the us, then I doubt they were a majority, but instead powerful and influential minorities of rich people and politicians. The average working man probably didn't contribute very much to all that."

The wealthy & powerful certainly aren't the ones that got their hands dirty in it. They were safely somewhere else while all the shooting, screaming and hanging was going on.

webkilla wrote: "A white lumberjack in the rural parts of portland isn't keeping a black man in mississipi down."

I'm not sure I'm following. The working class whites are certainly in Ole Mississippi to get the job done. They don't need to call in any outside talent.

webkilla wrote: "mocking any black person who disagrees with him as a race traitor (or any black person dating a non-black), that he's not really earning himsef any favors."

Yeah, well, trust that those are two completely different sub-groups who are not likely to get along under the best of circumstances. It's like telling Malcom X to calm down so he can be buddies with someone like Ben Carson.

webkilla wrote: "He said as much himself in the thread that his comics are NOT meant to recruit or enlighten new recruits."

I can see that. He's positioned himself as the artist, honestly expressing himself. He would definitely appreciate volunteers showing up inspired by his work, but to actually recruit people who would act like stakeholders entitled to influence his message? That kind of shit is traditionally the death of true art. I think he's right to stay as the lone cartoonist.

webkilla wrote: "he doesn't want a solution, he just wants a way to justify calling other people names"

hahaha I can't help but interpret that perspective as a side effect of this epic flame war.

webkilla - fair points all around - the white guilt thing was chiefly something i interpretted out of your choice of words

as for the other stuff:

CF wrote: "He would definitely appreciate volunteers showing up inspired by his work, but to actually recruit people who would act like stakeholders entitled to influence his message? That kind of shit is traditionally the death of true art. I"

I don't agree here. I think it should be possible, with some honest effort, to produce a message that can appeal to people outside your community. He's scaring people away. that's doing the opposite of helping people -the alien "eww monkey" comic in particular is a fun example of that.

CF wrote: "hahaha I can't help but interpret that perspective as a side effect of this epic flame war."

No, we asked him in the thread what he wanted for reperations. the "land and rule" bits were never properly explained - but he said that he wanted one years worth of the US GDP just straight given to his community as monetary compensation. That's never going to happen, and so I posit that he sets such an impossible goal on purpose so he has a flimsy excuse to stay mad. Being able to claim perpetual victimhood is a classic SJW move.

Hell, he has a comic where he straight up shits on the idea of individual black people setting up successful business Team Bootstraps by M. Rasheed - he's a collectivist - he doesn't like the idea of individuals getting ahead.

Its like you said earlier: Look at the message he's actually pushing, especially with the above linked comic. He wants his solution to come via gibs, not people succeeding on their own.

Long Tom - I Drew This was a perfect example of an incompetent political cartoon, namely because it parroted liberal talking points every other liberal has said already, without even attempting to be clever or original. TRUMPED(Resist) was also panned here because even liberals here hated it. When you don't please your intended target audience you know you goofed.

Political webcomics we gave A-bomb rating to were Hathor The Cow Goddess and Billy The Heretic, which we all agreed were batshit insane. We determined Rasheed's comic was crazy as well, though not meriting an atomic bomb rating.

When you think about it, there are plenty of jokes you find funny the first time, but hear that same joke enough times and you get tired of it. As for comedians themselves, it's not their jokes that are so great but the way their performances are. Bob Hope and John Cleese were great as performers, even though when you read their jokes they are not as amusing as all that.

Demerol - Also, even if some of the individual jokes are weak, the overall routine can work if they are delivered in quick succession alongside jokes that do make the audience laugh.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "I think it should be possible, with some honest effort, to produce a message that can appeal to people outside your community."

I agree it should be technically possible, but the tricky part here is that the stated point of their #ADOS movement is for the political unification and enfranchisement of their ethnic group, to use their numbers leverage to pressure the gov to cave to their demands. This is the tactic that all political identity groups use. So I would think his message of economic inclusion by having their stolen inheritance wealth returned to close the wealth gap would be appealing enough to the people outside of the movement proper?

webkilla wrote: "He's scaring people away. that's doing the opposite of helping people"

I guess, if you think their point is to primarily recruit whites. But I think it's much more realistic that white people would join once they build up the org until its an undeniable force. Shit, I would even join at that point, hanging warily off in the back ready to bolt if the war trumpets sound...

webkilla wrote: "the alien 'eww monkey' comic in particular is a fun example of that."

I was okay with that one. Considering calling black people monkeys has been a long-time go-to slur directed at them, the idea of turning evolution theory in a weapon to direct the slur back at us was rather clever. I'd be willing to wager that anyone chased away by that one wouldn't have been a good ally to them anyway.

webkilla wrote: "That's never going to happen, and so I posit that he sets such an impossible goal on purpose"

Don't be too sure on that one. The gov routinely tosses around gigantic sums, so it's not really a matter of can they, but will they. And that's where the political capital of the unified group comes in to strategically apply the pressure. Can his cartoons help in that effort? Why not?

webkilla wrote: "Being able to claim perpetual victimhood is a classic SJW move."

To be fair, all these other SJW groups are just copying the Black American's original civil rights era model.

webkilla wrote: "he straight up shits on the idea of individual black people setting up successful business / He wants his solution to come via gibs, not people succeeding on their own."

Be careful on this one because it looks like a miscommunication glitch between the two of you. I noted it in your review. There's a big difference between individuals being financially successful on their own, or even in small family-sized clans, versus economic uplift of an entire group. The former will require a certain amount of kowtowing to the dominant group and its gatekeepers and money controllers. The latter requires strong political force enabling the entire group to now be economically equal in the markets as active competition. It's impossible to close the wealth gap with the former's individual successes and it can only be achieved with the government's enormous spending power, spending power needed for huge projects that would bankrupt the pooled funds of groups of individual investor fortunes. You can't entrepreneur your way into group economic uplift, you must have transformational politics like the New Deal, and public works dam projects and homesteading/land grant acts, etc.

webkilla - Hell I'd argue that stonetoss is a better political comic that rasheed's - not all of the stonetoss comics of course - but quite a number of them do invite to debate while also making you chuckle. Very few of rasheeds comics, if any, are even "haha funny" - especially not when he gets his wall of text on.

CF wrote: "I guess, if you think their point is to primarily recruit whites"

Or just black middle class people who have the financial means to supprot him - but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them get put off by his militant tone and near constant cries for a revolution. Hell, he even has comics where he says he thinks the US needs a [Weapon of the People: "The New Freedom (Black Codes Edition)" by M. Rasheed civil war] to fix things. He wants a revolution, not reform - and that's going to put off most people. Hell, the way he presents it it'll be a race war.

RE: eww monkey
You don't consider it tasteless that he's making his comics just as racist as how people were against black folks in the past? You'd think he would try to rise abose petty shit like that.

CF wrote: "Don't be too sure on that one. The gov routinely tosses around gigantic sums,"

sure, look at the corona spending and whatnot - but they're not going to give 100% of the US GDP for one year to some 30 million black people. That is beyond unrealistic. And again, i linked earlier to an example of rasheed mocking another black activist who had dared to go on the record asking for less than that. He wants all or nothing - and I'm quite certain that he knows he'll never get anything.

CF wrote: "Be careful on this one because it looks like a miscommunication glitch between the two of you. I noted it in your review. There's a big difference between individuals being financially successful on their own, or even in small family-sized clans, versus economic uplift of an entire group."

Oh I know, but I also sort of call bullshit on that kind of rhetoric. I've met people in the US, when I was over studying at virginia tech in 2010, talked to them about this. Including black students at the college. Some of them talked about a crab mentality, that in some of the poor black neighborhoods they knew of - or had grown up in - if you as much as dared to advance economically or socially beyond your peers, they would shit all over you, or worse.

And I checked - others seem to agree with me:
‘Black Haters’: Crabs in a barrel | Our Weekly
Dr. Cornel West: The Biggest Crab in the Barrel | HuffPost
Crabs in A Barrel- Black Women at Work | Blackness & The Workplace

This is why I am so very sceptical of rasheeds constant cries that its evil whity or evil immigrants (or both) keeping him and his peeps down. I recall a post on tumblr, can't find it though, where a black women wrote that black people shouldn't play D&D because it was too white, and that if you were a black person playing D&D you should be mocked and derided for it, even more so if you dared play it with white people. This joker was put on blast for posting something that stupid, but its the crab mentality: I t seems that there are a number of black people in the US very adamant that none of their peers should be allowed to stray from the flock or elevate themselves. Rashed appears to be one of them.

Long Tom - One thing I do agree with Rasheed on though is his criticism of President Obama as not being like other black Americans in that he was not a descendant of American slaves, his parents being a white mother and a Kenyan sperm donor who wasn't around for him. The father might have been descended from slaves himself, but probably not American ones.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "stonetoss is a better political comic that rasheed's - not all of the stonetoss comics of course - but quite a number of them do invite to debate while also making you chuckle."

It sounds like this legendary flame war you linked to in your review was the debate that his comics invites debate for, since I can't imagine it was about anything but Rasheed's one-trick-pony show. If he got you to debate him over the issues he brought up and even cite particular cartoons of his to make your points as you are doing now, then it seems like his work is doing exactly that. At least that's what it seems like from here. Unless you're saying that because his cartoon messaging is triggering, that it makes us not want to debate him but just dismiss it as crazytown? I would have dismissed it as just angry black man rantings if I wasn't led into the rabbit hole from recognizing the facts in certain of his rhetoric that I just happened to have experience with, knowing full well the average white male doesn't have this background to draw from while evaluating 'Sheed's work.

webkilla wrote: "Or just black middle class people who have the financial means to supprot him"

It looks like he's really more interested in spreading the art activism message to be honest, and if people want to be subscribers or whatever that's just extra. Based on his output, he's the type of person who would do all of this for free anyway.

webkilla wrote: "but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them get put off by his militant tone"

I'm sure they do. Integration politics and political activism are violently opposed to each other.

webkilla wrote: "He wants a revolution, not reform - and that's going to put off most people. Hell, the way he presents it it'll be a race war."

Trust me, I know my people, and it's not that Rasheed wants a revolution, but there's no way African-Americans will get what they want without a repeat of the American trend of violent backlash from the opposing political identity group. The violent Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville was the response to the nationwide protests that pulled down old confederate statues. The police reform BLM organization was formed because of the increase in police brutality that came directly after Obama's election. Anything the white community perceives as a gain for African-Americans is instantly seen as a threat to their own race survival and they respond with armed militias. You can set your watch by it. So it's not like Rasheed is actively preaching for it, he's just reasonably anticipating it as a student of our history.

webkilla wrote: "You don't consider it tasteless that he's making his comics just as racist as how people were against black folks in the past?"

Not really. People have the option of defending themselves or take the "turn the other cheek" Christian approach. Rasheed never gave me the impression of being a Christian and he doesn't shy away from verbal combat either. In any event, he's 100% outgunned in any fight since the very platform he's typing in belongs to evil whitey, so he'll always have the disadvantage by default. Him fighting back against the invincible Goliath ("speaking truth to Power") isn't tasteless at all, but brave and heroic by definition even if I don't necessarily agree with his message.

webkilla wrote: "You'd think he would try to rise abose petty shit like that."

If David would have "been the better man" and ignored Goliath's blasphemous taunts, then the Philistines would have slaughtered them all and the story of the Jewish People would have ended barely before it even started.

webkilla wrote: "Some of them talked about a crab mentality, that in some of the poor black neighborhoods they knew of - or had grown up in - if you as much as dared to advance economically or socially beyond your peers, they would shit all over you, or worse."

Oh, yeah, that crab mentality is very real at all economic levels. It's an artificially socially-engineered condition, set up during the Integration era after civil rights. To encourage African-Americans to assimilate into white America, their black business districts were phased out by violent government policies, forcing them to take limited affirmative action diversity hire slots in white companies. Instead of competing with whites in the wealth-building side of the free markets business-to-business, they now compete directly against each other inside of white businesses individual-to-individual. The industries controlled by colluding corporations, with true competition stifled by monopoly power, is the root cause of the high unemployment numbers; the fewer business competing the markets, the fewer jobs there are. It's impossible for the entire group to prosper by playing the game deliberately rigged against them like this. That's why I said I do wish them success in trying to get their justice, but there is no way all of that will be broken without the other whites further down the economic ranking order interpreting it in any other way than as an attack upon their freedoms (see: Capitol Hill).

webkilla wrote: "I t seems that there are a number of black people in the US very adamant that none of their peers should be allowed to stray from the flock or elevate themselves. Rashed appears to be one of them."

I don't think he's against individuals doing what they need to do to live a decent quality of life for them and their families. His cartoons critique his political opponents who pretend that individual decisions will raise up the group and who fight against political unification for transformational politics. Ironically, it's the "stray from the flock" African-Americans who have figured out how to gain favor inside of the rigged system who push back hardest against the idea of the whole group doing well. Making us whites think "Unlike those others, you're a credit to your race" becomes very valuable to you when you've worked hard to develop the skills to get us to trust you.

Unfair Warning - I used to be a Quora Lurker way back in the day and I remember these comics. Fun times. Well, "fun".

webkilla - @Unfair Warning... Much like this forum, Rasheed was ultimately booted off the Quora forum for being too racist and extreme.

Now, CF, lets see here:

CF wrote: "It sounds like this legendary flame war you linked to in your review was the debate that his comics invites debate for"

Yes, I wrote so in the review just the same. We rarely get cartoonists who come here who straight up taunt us by saying "You're not woke enough to review my comic"

But the thing is: We did try to debate him... but he wasn't really playing ball. If we tried to argue anything, he would simply dismiss anything we said by either saying that we were racists for not agreeing with him, that we were white supremacists, that we were too uninformed and not woke enough, or all of the above. It wasn't muc hof a debate.

CF wrote: "then it seems like his work is doing exactly that"

If his work is to insult people and call you racist, then... I don't think that's a productive use of your time.

CF wrote: "Unless you're saying that because his cartoon messaging is triggering"

This is the bad webcomic forum. We review bad webcomics here. I don't consider that being 'triggered' by rasheed's comic - I consider that going "oh hey, this looks racist as all hell" - though he did repeatedly claim that the only reason we didn't love the comic was because we were all a bunch of triggered whiteys.

CF wrote: "I would have dismissed it as just angry black man rantings if I wasn't led into the rabbit hole from recognizing the facts in certain of his rhetoric that I just happened to have experience with,"

Even broken clocks can be right two times a day - that doesn't mean that his shit is above board overall.

The Privilege to Ignore the Wrongs I Inherit and Perpetuate by M. Rasheed - he seems to believe that ALL white people sit on massive wads of "white family wealth"

The Most Protected Oppressor by M. Rasheed - he'll gladly shit on other races making progress up the social ladder, if its not something that benefits him directly

[WHITES ONLY] "An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" by M. Rasheed - he also seems to think that the US school system is still somehow segregated.

Racism's Shady Doublespeak by M. Rasheed - he even has a comic where he makes the idea of not judging people by the color of their skin out to be a racist and oppressive bad thing

shit like that is nuts.

CF wrote: "It looks like he's really more interested in spreading the art activism message to be honest"

Yes, no doubt - and if we judge by how little money he gets on his patreon, then he has utterly failed at reaching anyone who cares enough to support his cause, so he is without a doubt doing it for free.

CF wrote: "Trust me, I know my people, and it's not that Rasheed wants a revolution"

And yet he has a comic where he straight up says that "his people" need another civil war to get all the shit they want: Weapon of the People: "The New Freedom (Black Codes Edition)" by M. Rasheed - but yes, I don't think he'll ever get that, and he knows that. This just circles back to him wanting to remain a perpetual victim.

CF wrote: "Anything the white community perceives as a gain for African-Americans is instantly seen as a threat to their own race survival and they respond with armed militias"

That sounds like a bit of a generalization. And while that might have been the case in the 50s and 60s, it doesn't appear that such militias - of what little exists anymore - has much political power or influence.

CF wrote: "So it's not like Rasheed is actively preaching for it, he's just reasonably anticipating it as a student of our history."

See the above linked comic. No I think he is on some level.

CF wrote: "Not really."

Well then I think we will have to disagree on taht point - because I find it extremely distasteful. The kind of civil disobedience activism I know of calls for rising above the BS of those you protest against, not stooping to a level that appears even lower than theirs.

CF wrote: "It's an artificially socially-engineered condition, set up during the Integration era after civil rights."

Really? By who? You must forgive me, but jumping to a conclusion like that sounds very... Rasheed-like. Are you legit saying that the black communities doing this kind of crab behavior shouldn't be held accountable for their own actions, that its all just the fault of some external conspiracy meant to keep them down? That is some very Rasheed-style talking points.

CF wrote: "I don't think he's against individuals doing what they need to do to live a decent quality of life for them and their families."

I have linked comics showing him shitting on black first-time home-owners, black business owners, and black intellectuals who do not agree with him. I think his body of work speaks quite clearly of how he is a big ol' crab.

You must forgive me CF - but you appear to rather firmly dabbling in apologia for Rasheed here.

consider his latests comics:

The Very Carefully Socially Engineered Fake Alliance by M. Rasheed - here he claims that LGBT pride movements are somehow coopting black pride movements, as if the two are mutually exclusive. This makes absolutely no sense. Gay rights doesn't mean that black people get less rights. This shit is insane. Sure, he's spoken repeatedly in his comics against SJWs and their communist/social BS, but to claim that LGBT rights organizations are resulting in less black rights, that some paranoid delusion bullshit right there.

Order in the Court by M. Rasheed - hell he even has a follow-up comic to the above, where he implies that conservative white homosexuals are somehow forced to stay in the closet by evil whitey in order to further mess with black people somehow? I cannot, in any kind of good faith, accept that kind of absolute bullshit.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "who straight up taunt us by saying 'You're not woke enough to review my comic'"

That is crazy. smh He can't say in good faith that he didn't earn the scalding review.

webkilla wrote: "If we tried to argue anything, he would simply dismiss anything we said by either saying that we were racists for not agreeing with him, that we were white supremacists, that we were too uninformed and not woke enough, or all of the above."

I did see those blog posts of his where he copy/pasted clips of dialogue and screenshots from the flame war in question and I noticed he did post the links to the articles that his cartoons only caricatured in his style. If his response to your queries was to post the evidence, I certainly hope you didn't dismiss those links only to respond back saying he shat on people who disagreed with him and just wanted to play victim and what not. Instead, as an academic, I would want to know what evidence did you provide to counter his evidence in an actual debate of the material. When you say "If we tried to argue anything" do you mean a real argument in the formal debate sense, or an emotional back-n-forth of rhetorical opinion?

webkilla wrote: "If his work is to insult people and call you racist, then... I don't think that's a productive use of your time."

Agreed. His work is focused on waking his own people up from Integration slumber, and plant the seeds for joining together as an actionable political bloc. When we see them, he provides the opportunity to refute his claims with evidence. I see no good reason why he would ever decide to just believe our opinions of historical event assessments because we said it, not after all the ugly shit he's seen in the record.

webkilla wrote: "We review bad webcomics here. I don't consider that being 'triggered' by rasheed's comic"

Oh, and you absolutely shouldn't. I meant triggered by the harshness of how the subjects he addresses are presented, usually without a care for how bad it makes certain groups look, to put all of our old baggage out there, stripped of all the media spin we usually provide. That definitely comes off as disrespectful and like someone who isn't trying to recruit allies for his cause.

webkilla wrote: "though he did repeatedly claim that the only reason we didn't love the comic was because we were all a bunch of triggered whiteys."

If his comic says something that causes me such cognitive dissonance and anger that I don't even WANT to know the backstory behind the drawing's message, I just want him to stop drawing them, then that would mean he was right. I've definitely seen some cartoons of his that did that to me.

webkilla wrote: "that doesn't mean that his shit is above board overall."

Ha! Whose board?

webkilla wrote: "he seems to believe that ALL white people sit on massive wads of 'white family wealth'"

According to the 2016 federal reserve report, the average white family has a median wealth of $110,000 while the average African American family's median wealth is $200. This was when the national household wealth was at $110 trillion and white people controlled 90% of it. In the last few weeks, the Federal Reserve updated the report to reveal the national household wealth has increased to $136 trillion, right when everyone is complaining about how starter homes are no longer affordable for young couples... not without massive help from the previous generation. This kind of talk leaves African-Americans out of the discussion, since they control less than $6 trillion as a group (most of that being in illiquid baby boomer assets & pensions. Despite the ridiculousness of the visual hyperbole, his messaging does reflect the actual data.

webkilla wrote: "he'll gladly shit on other races making progress up the social ladder, if its not something that benefits him directly"

His critique is against those groups that exploit his group in order to make their progress. Those are two separate things.

webkilla wrote: "he also seems to think that the US school system is still somehow segregated."

It is. It's literally more "separate and unequal" segregated than it was back in 1970. The most segregated state in the union is New York, and the liberals there will tear your head off for trying to increase the number of African-American kids in their schools from their 15% cut off. We hoard quality education from them and always have, giving two big middle fingers to the landmark Supreme Court Brown v Board of Education decision.

webkilla wrote: "he even has a comic where he makes the idea of not judging people by the color of their skin out to be a racist and oppressive bad thing"

He's actually critiquing the Republican talking point that caricatures MLK's speech clip, not the principle itself. That's an interpretative nuance lost on you because you're outside of the back-n-forth rhetoric of our partisan game board.

webkilla wrote: "and if we judge by how little money he gets on his patreon, then he has utterly failed at reaching anyone who cares enough to support his cause, so he is without a doubt doing it for free."

lol Well, since the entire point of the Reparations messaging is that his people don't have any wealth, I can't imagine why I would judge his success on his crowd fund accounts. I would judge it based on the increasing numbers of people joining this #ADOS thing and pulling data to see how many people were specifically inspired through his work.

webkilla wrote: "And yet he has a comic where he straight up says that "his people" need another civil war to get all the shit they want"

He's not wrong, since I believe that a civil war will definitely be triggered if his people get what they want. His position is that we may as well get it over with sooner rather than later. I just want my head's up phone call beforehand. I keep a go-bag at the front door closet.

webkilla wrote: "That sounds like a bit of a generalization."

Unfortunately, it's rock-solid American history, hence why I'd rather not be around if/when it happens for all the marbles.

webkilla wrote: "it doesn't appear that such militias - of what little exists anymore - has much political power or influence."

The numbers of terror incidents and murders dropped significantly after the New Deal era economic uplift of the white community. Once that chasm in wealth/quality-of-life was suitably widened enough to give whites peace-of-mind, then the routine "strange fruit" demonstrations of groups like the Ku Klux Klan dipped significantly. It wasn't until the riots of the late '60s were met with the formal police brutality policy of "Law & Order," as Rasheed pointed out in a few of his cartoons, did the terror return stronger and in a more focused effort (that could more easily pretend to be something else under the red tape bureaucracy).

webkilla wrote: "Well then I think we will have to disagree on taht point - because I find it extremely distasteful. The kind of civil disobedience activism I know of calls for rising above the BS of those you protest against, not stooping to a level that appears even lower than theirs."

I'm not saying it's not personally distasteful, since I wouldn't enjoy being called a monkey any more than he would. I'm saying protesting someone because they didn't protest ongoing historical injustices in a way I would personally prefer they did can't be a valid argument.

webkilla wrote: "Really? By who?"

Yes, by US government policies.

webkilla wrote: "You must forgive me, but jumping to a conclusion like that sounds very... Rasheed-like."

I now need you to forgive me, since I am a little more read up on the subjects and can confirm that he's not making up the themes he cycles through ad nauseum just to be a racist dick. There are no other conclusions to come to when objectively looking at the ugly history of the United States of America, which is precisely why American politicians do toss the reparations issue around like a burning hot potato instead of just throwing the damned thing away as we would if it were but an ignorant curio of a delusional mind.

webkilla wrote: "Are you legit saying that the black communities doing this kind of crab behavior shouldn't be held accountable for their own actions, that its all just the fault of some external conspiracy meant to keep them down? That is some very Rasheed-style talking points."

Well, look at it this way: I drill a hole in the ceiling above your head, water is now pouring in on you and I keep scolding you because every time I see you your face is wet. "There's a towel right THERE!" How do I hold a group accountable for behavior that is the side effect of conditions I deliberately maintain? The only way they can fix the issue is to stop me from maintaining the conditions that force them into a toxic competitive scenario that only really benefits me, not to insist they keep a towel to mop their faces with all day.

webkilla wrote: "I have linked comics showing him shitting on black first-time home-owners, black business owners, and black intellectuals who do not agree with him."

In the case of the home-owner, Rasheed is countering the idea that an individual's entry into a predatory debt-trap market represents socio-economic uplift for the entire group, which is how it is often presented by afrocentric grifter types. For the other two, it's a matter of whose rhetoric you are willing to believe? As an academic, I'm forced to side with the party with the most convincing evidence. First, we have to evaluate the quality of that evidence, right?

webkilla wrote: "I think his body of work speaks quite clearly of how he is a big ol' crab."

lol The "crabs-in-a-barrel" saying means that when one crab tries to get out of the barrel, he is seized and pulled back in by another crab, and it is in this manner that none of them are able to escape. The black first-time home-owner, black business owner, and black intellectual have already escaped, so the term doesn't really apply. Critiquing their political rhetoric isn't the same as pulling them down economically.

webkilla wrote: "You must forgive me CF - but you appear to rather firmly dabbling in apologia for Rasheed here."

I don't care much for his hyperbole, but I don't mind since he's not really talking to ME and his people probably do need to hear it from his POV. My position here is to defend the source material that inspired Rasheed to draw the cartoons, which in many cases I've (uncomfortably) confirmed are real. I don't see how it benefits me either way to pretend that Rasheed is just making it up just to be mean.

webkilla wrote: "here he claims that LGBT pride movements are somehow"

Yeah, I've prudently decided not to comment on those since my capacity to maintain my cool and not get over-triggered may fail me.

webkilla - CF wrote: "If his response to your queries was to post the evidence, I certainly hope you didn't dismiss those links only to respond back saying he shitted on people who disagreed with him and just wanted to play victim and what not."

IIRC he did not. Because he repeatedly stated that his comic were for the people who already believed in his message, so he did not at all feel the need to explain his claims to us non-believers. That's the "Advantage" of preaching to the choir I guess, you can assume that everyone already agrees with you.

CF wrote: "Instead, as an academic, I would want to know what evidence did you provide to counter his evidence in an actual debate of the material."

shit's deleted. I can't remember what we posted - but I think for the most part we were asking him to prove the claims he was making in the comic, though he would routinely try to flip the burden of evidence on us IIRC. You know, the "You have to prove that my claim is wrong" bullshit.

CF wrote: "His work is focused on waking his own people up from Integration slumber, and plant the seeds for joining together as an actionable political bloc."

I'm reasonably sure you can do that without shitting all over everyone else

CF wrote: "I meant triggered by the harshness of how the subjects he addresses are presented, usually without a care for how bad it makes certain groups look, to put all of our old baggage out there, stripped of all the media spin we usually provide."

 
I generally dislike the term "triggered" - it used to mean something specific within the word of therapy and psychology. These days its a catch-all for getting upset over something. Much like how I disliked Natty for its overblown BS, so do I not like rasheed's work for its overblown BS.

CF wrote: "Ha! Whose board?"

CF wrote: "According to the 2016 federal reserve report"

There are more white ppl in the US than black. There are more rich white ppl in the US than black. To nobody's surprise, that makes the average white household more wealthy. But I do recall linking some stats earlier showing that there are more poor white ppl in the US than black too.

CF wrote: "His critique is against those groups that exploit his group in order to make their progress"

Perhaps, but the problem is that similar to his generalizing all white people as racists, then he's also making it appear that ALL non-white immigrants in the US are just as bad. He straight up said in the forum thread that he refused to specify that he was only talking about the "bad ones", not everyone.

CF wrote: "It is. It's literally more 'separate and unequal' segregated than it was back in 1970."

You must forgive me - but I would think that something that reasonably cut and dry would be pretty easy for things like ADL lawyers to put an end to?

CF wrote: "That's an interpretative nuance lost on you because you're outside of the back-n-forth rhetoric of our partisan game board."

its also an interpretive nuance lost in that its not pointed out that that's what he's talking about in the comic. Again, he doesn't exactly make the comic "outsider reader friendly"

CF wrote: "I can't imagine why I would judge his success on his crowd fund accounts."

SJWs in general tend to be amazing at supporting each other via patreon and similar services. A lot of SJW webcomics make bank that way.

CF wrote: "since I believe that a civil war will definitely be triggered if his people get what they want"

...but they never will, since its 100% of the US GDP for a whole year is a freaking pipe dream.

CF wrote: "Yes, by US government policies."

I find that not just hard to believe, but I fail to see the connection between things like affirmative action and then a community as a whole going crab mentality vis a vis punishing its own members who try to improve their lives. I do not see the connection between those two things, and so I can't see how you can say its just "us govt policies" doing it. I guess I need better proof.

CF wrote: "since I am a little more read up on the subjects and can confirm that he's not making up the themes he cycles through ad nauseum just to be a racist dick"

Alright pilgrim, but I'll need you to start linking me some evidence to those claims then

CF wrote: "I drill a hole in the ceiling above your head, water is now pouring in on you and I keep scolding you because every time I see you your face is wet."

That is an amazingly silly analogy IMO. why not just link to articles or similar proof of what you're saying? It would be more than what Rasheed ever did.

CF wrote: "so the term doesn't really apply."

Perhaps not economically, but I still consider it a form of crab mentality in that other black people are talking shit to the ones who make better lives for themselves. Its a social crab mentality, punishing their social standing.

CF wrote: "I don't see how it benefits me either way to pretend that Rasheed is just making it up just to be mean"

No I think he's either making shit up or exaggerating things to maintain his eternal underdog status.

CF wrote: "Yeah, I've prudently decided not to comment on those since my capacity to maintain my cool and not get over-triggered may fail me."

You'll have to forgive me - but this just makes me curious. You think he's right or wrong here?

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "IIRC he did not. shit's deleted. I can't remember what we posted - but I think for the most part we were asking him to prove the claims he was making in the comic, though he would routinely try to flip the burden of evidence on us IIRC. You know, the 'You have to prove that my claim is wrong' bullshit."

I see the part where a "NolanDaneworth" member asked Rasheed "what supposed Supremacy or Privilege i have over other people" and Rasheed responded with a link detailing the 124 year long program that undergirded white people with an economic floor. In response to a comment you made ("That's the problem with identity politics Nolan - its judging you by your race, not by your actions"), Rasheed posted a series of links of high-profile systemic level discrimination policies and practices that target his group in the modern day. I don't see where you actually addressed the evidence he provided which is why I was curious if you had later.

webkilla wrote: "I'm reasonably sure you can do that without shitting all over everyone else"

Yet, if the findings in the record reveal that the reason his people are disenfranchised in the first place is because a certain group did them wrong and are currently pretending they didn't do anything at all...? Simply revealing the facts can give the impression of "shitting all over everyone else" if that someone else was in the wrong. That's one reason why I would just want to be out of it altogether, so I can at least point out that my hands are clean. I would rather not be caught out in the open covering over a lie.

webkilla wrote: "so do I not like rasheed's work for its overblown BS"

I don't like it because it's about my group on both sides of my family. I hold admiration for it in a lot of ways from an objective analyst viewpoint, but I would never add those to my regular pull list, so to speak. I don't think it would be good for my long-tern psyche TBH.

webkilla wrote: "[happy-face yellow board]"

hahahahahaha

webkilla wrote: "To nobody's surprise, that makes the average white household more wealthy."

Yes, but where did the wealth come from exactly?

webkilla wrote: "But I do recall linking some stats earlier showing that there are more poor white ppl in the US than black too."

The average poor white family has a median household wealth of $17,000 in 2016, while the average poor black family has a median household wealth of zero. The question of where does that wealth come from becomes immediately relevant.

webkilla wrote: "He straight up said in the forum thread that he refused to specify that he was only talking about the 'bad ones,' not everyone."

What did he mean by that? That he didn't believe there were any good ones?

webkilla wrote: "You must forgive me - but I would think that something that reasonably cut and dry would be pretty easy for things like ADL lawyers to put an end to?"

Only if you assume the ADL would ever care about African-American economic inclusion, etc. Is there any evidence ever that they would? IIRC, it was the ADL that discouraged the Starbucks CEO from setting a reparations-like precedent and giving monetary compensation to the two African-American gentlemen who were profiled by an employee who called the cops on them for being black. Instead, they rolled out the "mandatory implicit bias corporate training" throughout the Fortune 1000 which did literally nothing at all.

webkilla wrote: "its also an interpretive nuance lost in that its not pointed out that that's what he's talking about in the comic. Again, he doesn't exactly make the comic 'outsider reader friendly'"

As an independent comic artist with a specialized product intended for a specific demographic? What you're suggesting goes against business 101 principles that instruct not to try to make a product for everybody... choose a demographic to craft it towards. It would seem that your critique is making unreasonable demands upon this particular artist that do not align to business norms.

webkilla wrote: "SJWs in general tend to be amazing at supporting each other via patreon and similar services."

Right, but a big part of his message is that SJW rival groups in his party only exploit his group.

webkilla wrote: "...but they never will, since its 100% of the US GDP for a whole year is a freaking pipe dream."

lol You're hung up on that one line, but the precedent has already been set for a government commitment to one particular group to give them literally everything they need to be financially well off if they so choose to take full advantage of the program, and the first wave of it lasted for 124 years. Realistically, the reparations program would probably not be dissimilar to this.

webkilla wrote: "I fail to see the connection between things like affirmative action and then a community as a whole going crab mentality vis a vis punishing its own members who try to improve their lives."

During the Jim Crow era, African-Americans had their own business districts in their segregated all-black communities across the country. They generally did really well, even thrived, and unemployment was low since they could always work in the family business where they had no choice but to support one another under forced segregation conditions. During the Integration era, those business districts were taken away to encourage their individuals to gain employment within white-owned companies, companies that immediately absorbed the marketshare lost at the liquidation of all of those black businesses. Now an arbitrary "13% of all white-owned companies should be black" as the driving point of Integration principles, implemented throughout all industries, so the modern high black unemployment numbers reflect the rat-race of African-Americans competing for these scant number of diversity hire slots.

webkilla wrote: "I do not see the connection between those two things, and so I can't see how you can say its just "us govt policies" doing it. I guess I need better proof."

This is one of the most controversial methods for getting rid of the black business districts.

Top infrastructure official explains how America used highways to destroy black neighborhoods

Suffice it to say, it wasn't the idea of the African-Americans themselves to abandon their businesses to work in white companies.

webkilla wrote: "Alright pilgrim, but I'll need you to start linking me some evidence to those claims then"

Not a problem. That's why I was probing earlier to determine how you responded to the links I see that he posted, since it seems like you didn't care about them at all. I didn't want to be the guy always being a stickler for posting outside links nobody asked for and no one would read.

webkilla wrote: "That is an amazingly silly analogy IMO."

Well, that certainly hurt my feelings. :( Silly how?

webkilla wrote: "other black people are talking shit to the ones who make better lives for themselves."

In Rasheed's case, he's countering the shit-talking that came from the others. The argument is that they should all sellout and work to get a bigger piece of whitey's scraps instead of working together to be more economically independent so they can compete with their rival groups instead of being in an exploited position all the time.

webkilla wrote: "Its a social crab mentality, punishing their social standing."

How are they being punished when they are the ones with the perceived better lives?

webkilla wrote: "No I think he's either making shit up or exaggerating things to maintain his eternal underdog status."

Here's the link explaining where all of that free government wealth for whites only came from:

A 124-Year-Long, Government-Sponsored Land Giveaway Program For Whites

Here's a couple of links explaining how what little land African-American's had managed to acquire was stolen from them, just in the last 50 years or so:

The Great Land Robbery
How Property Law Is Used to Appropriate Black Land

Here's some links explaining how ongoing policies and practices keep African-Americans from the wealth-building class by locking them out of the real estate game:

Gentrification and the Death of Black Communities
How a ‘segregation tax’ is costing black American homeowners $156 billion
Bank redlining shuts doors to Black homeownership

Here's a white paper study explaining how 'black banks' have been turn into a con game siphoning wealth out of the African-American community from as far back as late Reconstruction:

Freedom Was the Call but “Instead, They Got a Bank”

webkilla wrote: "You'll have to forgive me - but this just makes me curious. You think he's right or wrong here?"

I didn't give it enough attention to care about whatever insulting thing he was trying to say, webkilla.

Long Tom - @CartoonFun...  I don't normally butt in on other people's conversations, but you sound like some whitey who has lived a very sheltered life who only knows about race from reading books. I actually know black people. I remember how in the 1980's, the news media was saying that blacks were flocking to Louis Farrakhan. Black writers, on the other hand, were saying that that was rubbish and they weren't.

CartoonFun - Long Tom wrote: "you sound like some whitey who has lived a very sheltered life who only knows about race from reading books. I actually know black people."

I don't understand. I have friends and colleagues in my networks of multiple black ethnicities, including these African-Americans. I both know black people and I know about race in America. It's not the main focus of my own work, but I am well-read in the material and no one can know about race in the USA by hiding from the factual history of it.

webkilla - @Long Tom... and that's why I'm sceptical about CF's claims. Getting a very rose-tinted glasses vibe here. If it wasn't because I could never imagine rasheed dropping in with an alt account and not reveal himself, since he's clearly a massive narcisistic, I'd have thought CF might be him.

Now....

CF wrote: "I see the part where a 'NolanDaneworth' member asked Rasheed"

...see where? Do you have an achive.is link or something? Plz share. Would love to be able to link it on the review. I'll address the specific example once I see it and check the linked stuff myself again.

CF wrote: "Simply revealing the facts can give the impression of "shitting all over everyone else" if that someone else was in the wrong."

Please don't pretend that that that's all Rasheed is doing. If that was all he did, he wouldn't make comics like this Wasting the Unfair Tilt by M. Rasheed

CF wrote: "Yes, but where did the wealth come from exactly?"

Do you think it happened like this, as rasheed seems to think? Racism is Theft: The Deliberate Widening of the Racial Wealth Gap by M. Rasheed - because that seems really fucking stupid. IIRC then only a small and very rich percentage of white ppl in the US owned slaves, while normie farmers and laborers did not. That's kinda my problem with Rasheed making that kind of generalized racist bullshit. Oh I'm sure there are a few families in the US who built their original wealth on slave-labor in the south, but here's the kicker: Most Wealthy Families Lose Their Wealth Within Three Generations: How to Avoid this Common Problem | Romano & Sumner Law Firm

Most families lose their wealth after three generation. Not all, but most. So statistically, not that much should be left.

Of course, rasheed argued that all white ppl in the US benefit from a system built on slavery - and that that's somehow enough to warrant calling them villainous slave-profiteers or whatever other verbose slurs he uses. But that vision of a rich whitey sitting on a huge sack of money marked "stolen black wealth" just doesn't exist like that. That's why his idea of taking tax money from all US citizens and giving it to his cause just doesn't seem fair IMO.

CF wrote: "What did he mean by that? That he didn't believe there were any good ones?"

That he refused to specify that he didn't mean "all white people are racist"

 
Then again, his comics aren't exactly subtle in trying to paint white people who aren't even doing anything as racist The Flimsy Camouflage of the Alt-Right by M. Rasheed

CF wrote: "What you're suggesting goes against business 101 principles that instruct not to try to make a product for everybody"

Perhaps, but I would critique his entire business model then because if all he wants to do is preach to the choir, then why even bother with the comic - I honestly believe he'd further his cause more by trying to appeal to people outside his community to support his political goals - that's another point of critique really.

CF wrote: "Right, but a big part of his message is that SJW rivals groups in his party only exploit his group."

I would flip that, saying that its Rasheeds mix of paranoia and messia-complex that makes him think that anyone talking about anything other than his cause, are somehow stealing attention away from him. I mean, he is straight up arguing in his latest comics that gay pride is somehow coopting or stealing shit away from black pride. Dude is delusional. That kind of shit is indefensible.

CF wrote: "lol You're hung up on that one line, but the precedent has already been set for a government commitment to one particular group to give them literally everything they need to be financially well off if they so chose to take full advantage of the program, and the first wave of it lasted for 124 years. Realistically, the reparations program would probably not be dissimilar to this."

What on earth are you talking about? That doesn't make any sense. (right, you link that thing later in your post, I commented on it there)

But ok, you want a hundred-year long reperation program then? I think Rasheed would tell you to fuck off, because that'd mean that his people right now wouldn't live to see the end of it - and there in lies the problem of him being an unreasonable shithead.

CF wrote: "Those business districts were taken away to encourage their individuals to gain employment within white-owned companies"

So the zoning was changed? Were their businesses ordered shut down by the government? Were private business-owners ordered via government mandate to seek employment at white-owned companies and give up their businesses? I think you're missing a few steps there.

CF posted: "Top infrastructure official explains how America used highways to destroy black neighborhoods | ThinkProgress"

I've actually heard about that one - and yes, taht's racist as hell. Of course, I would then question if this was "simply" racism done by the people who drew the maps on where to lay the highways and those who approved them, or whether there was official state policy saying "roll that blacktop over them black neighborhoods" - because IMO there is a bit of a difference there.

CF wrote: "I didn't want to be the guy always being a stickler for posting outside links nobody asked for and noone would read."

I too am a man of culture an academic, I know how to skim a paper. Just stop linking to paywalled papers where you can only read an abstract that doesn't say jack shit. I want to read the conclussion fully if you're linking to a paper - consider using google scholar if you're looking for full papers to link.

CF wrote: "Silly how?"

Because it did not make sense. A white man working man is not the one making unfair zoning policies, or drafting highways through black neighborhoods. If the problem is racist bureaucratics or public officials, then expose them and bring in the lawyers, but simply saying "its whitey doing it" doesn't make sense IMO. Just like the highway examples you've given, they can be traced back to specific architects and bureaucrats who can be named, sued and taken to court.

CF wrote: "In Rasheed's case, he's countering the shit-talking that came from the others."

 
By what? throwing even more shit around? Seems childish and counterproductive.

CF wrote: "The argument is that they should all sellout and work to get a bigger piece of whitey's scraps instead of working together to be more economically independent so they can compete with their rival groups instead of being in an exploited position all the time."

I keep hearing this, but quite frankly: If the problem is getting seed money to start your own business, then working for someone else for a couple of years and saving up isn't a crime. I fail to see why its a bad thing to integrate into an existing economic structure and working your way up that way.

CF wrote: "How are they being punished when they are the ones with the perceived better lives?"

 
Social scorn. Rasheed is branding them as race traitors and whatnot. Instead of going "Good for you, you made it, can you please help us too?" he goes "Fuck you, you uppity uncle tom you, you think you're better than us?" or something to that extent. That's at least the vibe I'm getting

CF posted: "The Greatest Wealth Transfer Program in the U.S. for Whites"

Right... so a pre-civil war SCOTUS ruling, from a time when pretty much everyone was racist? one that it seems most historians all agree was a shit ruling? Right. And the Us have had several homestead acts. So really, I don't think that's much of a good example. Of course conditions were shit for black people back then - that ruling was part of what helped spark the us civil war!

and I think your article also lumps a ton of different homestead programs together - or maybe they were expanded - i dunno. Also, looking at the other articles this Watkins fellow has written, it seems to be a LOT of woke stuff - so I would question if the article in question isn't just a tad biased.

see, apparently the southern homstead act of 1866 explicitly mentions that free blacks could get into on it (that southern bureaucrats and whatnot didn't play ball didn't help thought) - point is that that act was meant to open the door to black freed slaves. Can't say it was all bad when an attempt was made (could the attempt have been made better, probably) Southern Homestead Act of 1866 | Wikipedia - apparently a thousand or so black homesteaders were able to set up shop through that.

CF posted: "Freedom Was the Call but “Instead, They Got a Bank” | The Myth and Propaganda of Black Buying Power"

I aint paying 30€for a pdf. Cite something that doesn't cost money to read please.

CF wrote: "I didn't give it enough attention to care about whatever insulting thing he was trying to say, webkilla."

Then I'm asking you to give it attention.

The Very Carefully Socially Engineered Fake Alliance by M. Rasheed
Order in the Court by M. Rasheed


CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "I too am a man of culture an academic, I know how to skim a paper."

webkilla wrote: "or maybe they were expanded - i dunno."

 I can't tell if you're just messing with me or not. Are you multitasking...?

To be honest, I'm not really sure what to do with your dismissive ad hominem about Watkins while you suggested he was too biased to take seriously. We're all biased. What matters is if the material is true or not and if what's true or not isn't even on the table, are we supposed to actually ignore the facts and press to persuade people to believe in our passionate, uninformed opinions as Long Tom suggested? Then what do we use to determine whose opinion is the most "right" (or at least believable)?

webkilla wrote: "Then I'm asking you to give it attention."

Those themes in his work make me most uncomfortable personally and I'd rather move on. Thank you. No offense.

webkilla - RE: expanded

Because I'm not a historian and the wikipedia page doesn't go into detail beyond that. However, I couldn't find any mention of the 1862 homesteading act still having been in effect in the 1980s. I was simply trying to make sense of your claim that it had gone on in 124 years.

RE: I too am an academic, I know how to skim a paper.

 
What part of this doesn't make sense to you? I have two university degrees and a college degree. I know how to read a paper quickly and get to the juicy bits.

Anywho, to more answer your questions:

CF wrote: "What matters is if the material is true or not and if what's true or not isn't even on the table"

There is a HUGE difference between citing a source that only recounts historical events in a factual manner - and then citing something that equally adds activist spin and moral judgement to those events.

Take the Instead they got a bank thing you uploaded (thanks for that by the way)

Going through that paper, i found this gem of a line:

Black people do not have enough to deposit, wealth to offer as collateral, nor the ability to circumvent  persistent White supremacist devaluations of Black housing, land, or business to generate the kinds of banking (economic) strength required to serve the needs of a Black community.

The source to this claim is a paper from the 80s, now the funny thing is that looked up that source.
An Analysis of the Portfolio Behavior of Black-Owned Commercial Banks | The Journal of Finance

Now, once mre the full thing is paywalled, but what's availiable for free seems to say quite clearly that the paper does NOT say that black banks cant support black communities.

I similarly found this The performance of black-owned commercial banks: A comparative analysis | The Review of Black Political Economy which seems to say that black banks work just fine.

Now I know that's just one example of a clearly wrongful misreading/false atribution of a source to a bullshit claim, but quite frankly I don't need any more. A published paper doesn't get to make objectively false claims. Bad source, disregarded accordingly.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "Can't say it was all bad when an attempt was made (could the attempt have been made better, probably)"

That was during Reconstruction when there were several freedmen actually in government working with their white Republican allies to develop and pass The Southern Homestead Act of 1866. A follow up 2015 study revealed the following about the failed program:

"A disproportionate percentage of homesteaders were white. We substantiate some of the claims put forth in the earlier literature, such as large amounts of fraud. Further, we present a more nuanced interpretation of a greater success rate for African-Americans. Being local or non-local had no meaningful impact on white success rates but had a large impact on African-Americans. Local African-Americans were more likely to obtain title to their land while non-local African-Americans were less likely to succeed. We hypothesize that regional knowledge, kinship networks, and white resistance to non-local African-Americans are possible explanations for this racial difference."

The program was viciously sabotaged with most of the land ending up in the hands of the white community.

webkilla - Yes, I did say that it could have been done better.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "I know how to read a paper quickly and get to the juicy bits."

Was it the ad hominem about the guy's possible bias the juicy bit? Because you zoomed there with confirmation bias precision.

webkilla wrote: "There is a HUGE difference between citing a source that only recounts historical events in a factual manner - and then citing something that equally adds activist spin and moral judgement to those events."

Granted, but if I'm recounting an historical event of a lynching and burning down a black town in a factual manner, the moral judgment is built into it.

webkilla wrote: "but what's availiable for free seems to say quite clearly that the paper does NOT say that black banks cant support black communities."

If the people lack the ability to secure low interest loans and the bank itself doesn't have the funding to provide transformational group uplift, then in what way is it 'supporting' the community? They certainly aren't using the bank the way their white counterparts use it, to gain access to capital/credit to develop business that reap millions and millions for their communities.

webkilla wrote: "(thanks for that by the way)"

You're very welcome.

webkilla wrote: "I similarly found this which seems to say that black banks work just fine."

That one is only comparing the small banks to the larger banks in commercial performance, and do not mention what they are actually providing the the African-American community who are usually not using banking services to uplift their communities on a large scale.

webkilla wrote: "Yes, I did say that it could have been done better."

Yes, they had some issues out the gate, where they were charging a lot more for the parcels of land that the 1862 homesteading act charged the whites, for example. They didn't do a good job of actually protecting the program from the inevitable human predators.

webkilla - CF wrote: "Was it the ad hominem about the guy's possible bias the juicy bit? Because you zoomed there with confirmation bias precision."

yes I also meant that this winston fellow looked rather biased, considering his other writings

CF wrote: "Granted, but if I'm recounting an historical event of a lynching and burning down a black town in a factual manner, the moral judgment is built into it."

no doubt - but that's done via perscribing our morals to the facts, not having an article simply tell you if sometihng was bad or not.

CF wrote: "If the people lack the ability to secure low interest loans and the bank itself doesn't have the funding to provide transformational group uplift, then in what way is it 'supporting' the community?"

...the source I mentioned did seem to say that the black banks didn't have money problems? so... I dont get see where you're getting that

CF wrote: "That one is only comparing the small banks to the larger banks in commercial performance, and do not mention what they are actually providing the the African-American community who are usually not using banking services to uplift their communities on a large scale."

YOu just said earlier that if the banks didn't have the money to provide loans, then... and this one says they do have the money.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "not having an article simply tell you if sometihng was bad or not."

I wonder if that's the bottom line of why Rasheed's work rubs us the wrong way? Because we'd rather assign our own judgments to the events (or better yet sweep them under the rug and wipe them from the historic record altogether)?

webkilla wrote: "...the source I mentioned did seem to say that the black banks didn't have money problems? so... I dont get see where you're getting that"

Meaning that $50 million in total assets for a large black bank, compared to the $296.482 billion in assets for a bank like Charles Schwab, means there's no life changing events going on in the African-American community with an underfunded bank. That doesn't mean the black bank has "money problems," it means that's all they were allotted by the parent company.

webkilla - CF wrote: "I wonder if that's the bottom line of why Rasheed's work rubs us the wrong way? Because we'd rather assign our own judgments to the events (or better yet sweep them under the rug and wipe them from the historic record altogether)?"

Careful, you're weering off into mind-reader territory there. I assume you're not one.

CF wrote: "Meaning that $50 million in total assets for a large black bank"

that's still a lot of money to go around - and you can start a lot of small business and whatnot if that kind of assets are passed around.

Once more, I re-iterate: Whining that the black people aren't getting enough gibs, when the gibs being demanded are ludicruis amounts of money, just doesn't make sense

Long Tom - Or maybe because we're sick of hearing racist lies, the way a Holocaust survivor would take offense at someone who denies the Holocaust?

You may have known black people, but everything else I said about you has proven true. I think your "education" has consisted of reading a few carefully selected books telling you what you want to believe, and not reality. White people are not in the least privileged; in fact many were and are as poor and downtrodden as any blacks. The Irish who worked on the Erie Canal worked under worse conditions than black slaves, and many perished. (Black slaves were in fact worth money.)

Reading the writings of Sun Tzu does not make you a soldier; it requires actually joining the military and going through all the pain and physical hardship. You do not sound like you have had any sort of hard life.

webkilla - @Long Tom... I do believe it was Tim Pool who said that a lot of woke SJWs are basically just white supremacists (because they think that black epopel are so much more inferior that whites, so they need so much help from whitey and can't do anything on their own) they just feel guilty about it too

Unfair Warning - webkilla wrote: "Much like this forum, Rasheed was ultimately booted off the Quora forum for being too racist and extreme."

I remember that, he drew a comic depicting the owner of the Republic War Donkey counterpart as a Klan member.

webkilla - That and casually asked if he should up and kill me - but you know, posting strawman comics mocking people who try to talk to you is clearly the way to go.

Hell, he's done a LOT of comics based on what is supposed to be real conversations with people who were clearly just trying to give him friendly advice: Advice From a Soggy-Bottomed Box by M. Rasheed - he of course mocks them mercilessly, and comes off as a blowhard who cannot speak to others unless spouting his own propaganda and slogans all the time. See the stuff under this linked comic

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "Careful, you're weering off into mind-reader territory there."

I was only referencing your comment about not liking the one article because the guy was telling us how to think about the topic instead of just letting us put our own moral judgments on it. That was pretty straight and plain.

webkilla wrote: "that's still a lot of money to go around - and you can start a lot of small business and whatnot if that kind of assets are passed around."

The benefit of having a banking service tailored to your community and owned/ran by members of your own community is that they understand you and can work with you to ensure your success and the success of the community. Black banks don't function that way. It's a diversity hire cell of a white-owned bank that charges the African-American community higher fees, higher interest, underfunds their projects when they aren't strictly gatekeeping and telling them "No, we can't do that" and all while using their little deposits to fund projects for their SJW rivals so that THEY can start a lot of small business and whatnot.

webkilla wrote: "Whining that the black people aren't getting enough gibs, when the gibs being demanded are ludicruis amounts of money, just doesn't make sense"

The problem here is the hypocrisy, where whites give themselves unlimited gibs while telling these people they can't have unlimited gibs too because "that's too much" while they are the people who were owed enough gibs to make up for the historic wrongs done to them. Your argument is fueling Rasheed's point. Why do the whites deserve unlimited gibs for nothing while this other group who was worked to death to build up the country deserve none of it?

CartoonFun - Long Tom wrote: "Or maybe because we're sick of hearing racist lies"

I don't get it. What "lies?"

Long Tom wrote: "You may have known black people, but everything else I said about you has proven true."

I don't know anyone who follows farrakhan, Long Tom .

Long Tom wrote: "White people are not in the least privileged"

We're literally the undisputed kings of industry and control the most powerful governments in the world. The who's who of the wealthiest most influential people in the world are white.

Long Tom wrote: "in fact many were and are as poor and downtrodden as any blacks."

The median wealth of the average poor white family is $17,000, while the median wealth of the average black family is $200. And that was pre-COVID-19.

I don't understand your posts, Long Tom. You reject facts, hold a disdain for books, get offended when I post links that back my point (even though I only posted those links because your forum admin colleague asked me to).

I honestly can't pretend to understand your anti-intellectual mindset. It is completely alien to me. What do you have that would make me even consider accepting your comments as truth if you reject evidence and call scholarship "lies?" Your passion alone isn't enough to persuade me to your side.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "Perhaps, but I would critique his entire business model then because if all he wants to do is preach to the choir, then why even bother with the comic - I honestly believe he'd further his cause more by trying to appeal to people outside his community to support his political goals - that's another point of critique really."

I wanted to explore this topic more because your position has me a bit confused. I suspect it's because they do things different in the Danish local business markets? In American business practice tradition, entrepreneurs are instructed to define a specific target market and create content for them. This is not only normal, but widely recognized as a business best-practice. You seem to be saying, and please correct me if I'm interpreting your position wrong, that Rasheed should actually do the opposite of the industry standard business best practice in order for his work to be acceptable to you.

Long Tom - I merely point out facts and you completely fail to address a single point of mine. I'm not anti-intellectual, you are. I'm not trying to persuade you because you convinced me that you're a know-it-all who knows nothing. It's like teaching the mermaid to do the splits.

CartoonFun - Long Tom wrote: "I merely point out facts"

Unfortunately, you didn't point out any facts at all. However, you did express passionate disdain for books, book learning, education, citing sources, and literally everything else that represents the tools of the intellectual. And you did this while repeating often debunked partisan talking points that don't mean anything to anyone who actually researches and has an appreciation for facts and truth. Please refrain from breaking your own rules to butt into other people's conversations since you bring zero value in the practice. Have a nice day.

Long Tom - I pointed out plenty of facts. But it's clear to me you live in your own fantasy world and you don't want to look outside of it. Are you sure you're allowed to be using a computer? Even an average toddler would laugh at just how cockamamie your ravings are.

webkilla - CF, were you active on the forum here before the hack? I don't remember you being active here. How did you come across us?

Because quite frankly, you seem to project really hard on us. I've posted shit that seems to show that black banks are doing fine. Yes they're not as big as white banks, but go figure: there are more white people, who can thus put more money into white banks. Gee, I wonder how that math works.

Your apologia is just sad. You seem to labor under the same delusion that Rasheed has: That black people are incapable of making things work on their own, and that they're so weak that they absolutely need handouts and gibs to ever get anywhere. First off all that's IMO a really ugly and racist collectivist take, but secondly it robs the black americans of agency. Of course, Rasheed has already shown in his comic what he thinks of that agency if its not used in exactly the right way he wants - he shits on the black home-owners, business owners, and bankers because he doesn't have the same nice things.

Couple that with the crab mentality we discussed earlier, which provides a social pressure to keep black people from ever trying to up themselves unless its via "approved black activities" like being a rapper, sportsballer or shit like that - and you have a super toxic community that keeps itself down and keeps killing itself. How many people black people get shot on average every week i Chicago?

Of course rasheed has repeatedly dismissed black on black crime, saying that its white supremacist talking points. Can't have reality get in the way of his propaganda.

...and quite frankly CF, you're not much better. Hell you're straight up trying to gaslight Long Tom at this point.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "How did you come across us?"

I saw one of Rasheed's cartoons on reddit, did a search of his name and came to your review from following one of the images. I came here from your "sweet jesus it's a flame war" link.

webkilla wrote: "Because quite frankly, you seem to project really hard on us."

I'm not sure what that means. From my perspective, we're just engaged in a discussion over the material, debating certain parts of it that held interest. It doesn't have to be mean or hostile, which is why Long Tom's stance of attacking once I cited the sources stood out to me as clearly anti-intellectual. I have relatives who sound/act exactly like that and we are not on good terms.

webkilla wrote: "I've posted shit that seems to show that black banks are doing fine."

No, I've seen that and acknowledged it, but the point was whether these entities are providing benefits to the black community they were supposed to serve, not whether the banks are doing well commercially.

webkilla wrote: "Your apologia is just sad."

I'm trained to respect the facts that prove a theory, even if the theory may be personally offensive to my own ideologies. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

webkilla - Right... and while you did respond to some of my points there, I can't help but notice that you also artfully dodged certain others

Like, say, my whole point that the black communities might have some of the guilt on themselves for causing their problems? Why u no respond to that one?

Similar to how you've twice chosen to not comment on rasheed's anti-LGBT comics

The Very Carefully Socially Engineered Fake Alliance by M. Rasheed
Order in the Court by M. Rasheed

Do you think Rasheed is ok, claiming that lgbt-pride is "stealing" from black pride? that lgbt-rights is somehow stealing from black rights?

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "Right... and while you did respond to some of my points there, I can't help but notice that you also artfully dodged certain others"

I didn't re-respond to those points you brought up, because I already expressed my position about it earlier in the thread. I saw no reason to repeat the same thing.

webkilla wrote: "Like, say, my whole point that the black communities might have some of the guilt on themselves for causing their problems? Why u no respond to that one?"

You said you thought my analogy was silly and stupid. There seemed no reason to repeat myself on that point either.

webkilla wrote: "Similar to how you've twice chosen to not comment on rasheed's anti-LGBT comics"

For personal reasons I've decided not to pursue Rasheed's thought-trains on that topic. Please respect my decision.

CartoonFun - @webkilla... When you said that I was projecting really hard on you, was this in reference to my question about defining a specific target market for content? It was not my intention to sound like I was projecting hostility, I was genuine in my interest in your breakdown of it. I just wanted to know.

I wasn't trying to offend you.

Long Tom - @CartoonFun... I attacked you for being childish. So you cite sources which I find dubious, and I cite facts which you dismiss as "debunked talking points", which is certainly not the case. What are you trained in anyway? Name calling for pointing out facts which don't fit what you want to hear? Facts are facts. You don't need to cite a book to know that the sky is blue.

Nobody invited you here, and you can be thrown out the way Rasheed was. Nobody respects trolls. Or people who try to weasel their way out of answering uncomfortable questions. If you're going to start a fight, you'd better know how to finish it.

Long Tom - CartoonFun wrote: "I wasn't trying to offend you."

Pull the other one, it plays "Jingle Bells".

CartoonFun - Long Tom wrote: "I attacked you for being childish. So you cite sources which I find dubious"

I posted info that conflicted with your worldview, so that automatically made me "childish," even though I wasn't talking to you when I posted the links?

Long Tom wrote: "and I cite facts which you dismiss as 'debunked talking points,' which is certainly not the case."

Please post the evidence that proves your claims as facts. The quality of evidence you post will determine whether what you claim is the case or not, not the force of your passion.

Long Tom wrote: "Name calling for pointing out facts which don't fit what you want to hear?"

What name did I call you, Long Tom?

Long Tom wrote: "uncomfortable questions"

Like what?

webkilla - An uncomfortable question like the one you refuse to answer

CF wrote: "For personal reasons I've decided not to pursue Rasheed's thought-trains on that topic. Please respect my decision."

Nope

Please tell us if you think that Rasheed's anti-LGTB lunacy is legit and justified - because I think he's a massive narcisist who can't handle the idea of other civil rights movements doing better than his, making him feel as if he absolutely has to shit all over them, and paint them as if they're somehow "stealing" from the blacks.

And your back and forth with Long Tom - you do realize that what is basically happening here is exactly what I wrote about you projecting earlier? That you keep doomsaying about black people, how they can't possibly ever achieve anytihng without us mighty whitey giving them gibs, and then we point out that such a position is really racist, but you just deflect by claiming that your 'facts' dont fit our narrative.

Call us optimists, but we have this strange idea that things aren't that bad - and that one of the chief stumbling blocks for american black communities seem to be themselves and their apparent inability to deal with their bad elements (snitches get stitches and whatnot)

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "An uncomfortable question like the one you refuse to answer"

The topic is uncomfortable and I have no desire to dig around into Rasheed's opinions about those kinds of subjects. So, I don't have an opinion about whatever those cartoons claim because I'm not giving them my attention.

webkilla wrote: "Nope"

For the record, you've officially decided to disrespect me. Okay.

webkilla wrote: "because I think he's a massive narcisist who can't handle the idea of other civil rights movements doing better than his, making him feel as if he absolutely has to shit all over them, and paint them as if they're somehow 'stealing' from the blacks."

Your opinion of the civil rights movement and the times after it doesn't fit the history of the movement and how it was neutralized by the government.

webkilla wrote: "And your back and forth with Long Tom - you do realize that what is basically happening here is exactly what I wrote about you projecting earlier?"

No. What in the world does that have to do with Long Tom's anti-intellectualism and attacks on me? He doesn't respect worldviews different from his and he's throwing off on me and threatening to throw me out of the board just because of basic differences of opinion while he has the nerve to call me childish.

webkilla wrote: "but you just deflect by claiming that your 'facts' dont fit our narrative."

lol I don't what to tell you at this point, web. Your narrative isn't supported by the facts of history. There's nowhere else to go with that.

webkilla wrote: "Call us optimists, but we have this strange idea that things aren't that bad"

I would never, ever call someone who rejects facts and truth to prefer gossip and baseless partisan rhetoric an "optimist." Historically speaking, there's only one reason why us whites would ever reject facts to promote an "it isn't so bad" narrative about African-Americans... and that reason never shows us in a favorable light. Not once.

webkilla wrote: "and that one of the chief stumbling blocks for american black communities seem to be themselves and their apparent inability to deal with their bad elements (snitches get stitches and whatnot)"

That means you watch too much tv. lol

webkilla - I suspect we're done here - I don't like talking talking to racists, even the ones who feel guilty about their white supremacy ideas.

Your "truth" is doomsayer BS - and you decry our facts as anti-intelectual gossip and baseless partisan rhetoric.

By the power of the internet, I castigate thee CartoonFun as Rasheed 2.0

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "and you decry our facts"

What facts? "Facts" are able to be verified by evidence. What evidence do you have that supports your claims?

webkilla - That the black banks are ok for the size, that you've linked to sources that turn out to be misinterpreting facts in order to push an agenda.

CartoonFun - Okay, so you're passing off your anti-intellectual gossip and baseless partisan rhetoric as "facts" just like I said.

You actually want me to accept your spin-job rhetoric as "facts" and when I refuse, you call me names in a perfect peer-pressure/bullying tactic. This is a toxic environment, to be honest.

webkilla wrote: "I don't like talking talking to racists"

Between the two of us, I'm the one who wants them to actually receive their reparations justice claim, while you believe the television program's depiction of them as "thugs" and think they are lazy and are begging for money because they don't want to work.

I'll just leave that there to marinate.

webkilla - And you're passing off your racist doomsaying as fact.

I think black people are able to solve their own problems far better than what you give them credit for - but I also believe that they have to put in the effort to do so.

...not that a shitload of barriers of entry haven't been lowered already. Harvard and a number of other ivy league universities are well known for having lower SAT score requirements for black applicants, while in turn discriminating the shit out of asian immigrants by requiring a much higher score from them, higher than even what they ask of white people.

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "And you're passing off your racist doomsaying as fact."

Not quite. I'm actually providing the sound analysis of the facts (however doomsay sounding they may appear is irrelevant), while you're passing off American conservative talking points based on stereotypes, bigoted gossip and anti-intellectualism you pulled from tv and racist websites as fact.

webkilla wrote: "I think black people are able to solve their own problems far better than what you give them credit for"

Then why are you so concerned about Rasheed offending potential outsider allies if they can just do it themselves?

webkilla wrote: "but I also believe that they have to put in the effort to do so."

Then why do you hold disdain for their political activism they require to do just that? The African-Americans who put in the effort to get the transformational policies they need for group economic uplift you attack, but the ones who surrender to the system to just be a servant class under white-owned companies this is what you believe is the height they should ever reach for. But I'm the "racist." Okay.

webkilla wrote: "not that a shitload of barriers of entry haven't been lowered already. Harvard and a number of other ivy league universities are well known for having lower SAT score requirements for black applicants"

A white-controlled government and white-controlled institutions have sabotaged the American educational system to keep the highest quality education out of the reach of African-Americans, while still mandating the "13% diversity hire quotas" for their Integration policies. That means African-Americans are ill-equipped to enter the Ivy leagues, so white gatekeepers need to cheat to make the diversity numbers (obviously it doesn't matter if they graduate or not since no one's tracking that).

webkilla wrote: "while in turn discriminating the shit out of asian immigrants by requiring a much higher score from them, higher than even what they ask of white people."

The only real competition whites have since they artificially took the black community off the table are the Asians, who have just as much access to higher education programs as we do. Since we cheat to prevent entry of any African-American competition, should we be surprised that we also cheat to stifle the competition that is present? We hate competition, webkilla, that's why our best & brightest are professional monopolists. Racism at its heart, is selfishness.

webkilla - CF wrote: "Not quite. I'm actually providing the sound analysis of the facts"

citing 'facts' that turn out to be using incorrectly cited sources. natch

CF wrote: "Then why are you so concerned about Rasheed offending potential outsider allies if they can just do it themselves?"

because here we critique bad webcomics, and rasheed came to us talking shit

CF wrote: "Then why do you hold disdain for their political activism they require to do just that?"

because rasheed's slacktivism is IMO not representative of the black community, and he's asking for the impossible, so that's just plain stupid - and thus we mock him for being stupid

CF wrote: "but the ones who surrender to the system to just be a servant class under white-owned companies this is what you believe is the height they should ever reach for"

Do you not think that a black person could work for a white company for a while, save up, and then start his or her own business? Are you that racist, that you think that working for someone of a different race is some kind of act of surrender? They're not signing themselves into bondage, its just a day job.

CF wrote: "A white-controlled government and white-controlled institutions have sabotaged the American educational system to keep the highest quality education out of the reach of African-American"

if they have to lower the barrier of entry just to meet that quota, what does that say about black people?

CF wrote: "We hate competition"

Speak for yourself - don't attribute yourself pitty-racism to the rest of us

and if the universities are stomping on asians as if that's to prop up the whites, why the fuck do blacks then get a lower barrier of entry? that doesn't add up - and you know it!

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "citing 'facts' that turn out to be using incorrectly cited sources. natch"

Black banks are underfunded to prevent African-Americans from using them for economic uplift with access to capital/credit. You think a study you found that says Black Banks are profitable for the owners whether they have $50 million in assets or lower is relevant to anything we're talking about. This is a problem.

webkilla wrote: "because here we critique bad webcomics, and rasheed came to us talking shit"

So artfully dodging the question is your justification for your hypocrisy. Got it.

webkilla wrote: "because rasheed's slacktivism is IMO not representative of the black community"

Obviously, I'm not talking about him alone, but about the actual boots-on-the-ground black activists fighting for reparations and economic inclusion.

webkilla wrote: "and he's asking for the impossible"

We gave ourselves trillions and trillions in free land and gibs, so how come we can't do it for our fellow Americans whose free slave labor made the greatest country on earth possible?

webkilla wrote: "so that's just plain stupid"

Is it? I think you're just selfish.

webkilla wrote: "and thus we mock him for being stupid"

You actually attacked him for defending himself and threw him out for citing sources that backed his claims. This group seems to hate that intellectual tool and punish its use.

webkilla wrote: "Do you not think that a black person could work for a white company for a while, save up, and then start his or her own business?"

Sure, since they literally have no other choice but to do exactly that since they are locked out of access to transformational capital/credit provided by a real bank.

webkilla wrote: "Are you that racist, that you think that working for someone of a different race is some kind of act of surrender?"

lol How would you feel if your only option for "success" was to work "a job" in corporations owned and ran by black people who worked continuously to keep us from entering the free markets as direct competition to the Black Billionaire Class?

webkilla wrote: "They're not signing themselves into bondage, its just a day job."

Bondage is exactly what it is since they are discouraged from doing anything else to be "successful."

webkilla wrote: "if they have to lower the barrier of entry just to meet that quota, what does that say about black people?"

That white people refused to comply to the Supreme Court Brown v Board of Education decision. What else?

webkilla wrote: "Speak for yourself - don't attribute yourself pitty-racism to the rest of us"

I only spoke the truth. I'm uninterested in its sting on either you or me. You may continue to hide from it as you like, but this discussion has enlightened me to the fact that I probably need to do a lot more truth speaking. I have never been this offended in my life, and that's saying a lot since I work in a university. lol

webkilla wrote: "and if the universities are stomping on asians as if that's to prop up the whites, why the fuck do blacks then get a lower barrier of entry?"

Because African-Americans are not prepared for the workload of the Ivy leagues; they get in but they are no competition. There's no way they can graduate.

webkilla wrote: "that doesn't add up - and you know it!"

I can add very well actually.

Long Tom - You call me "anti-intellectual" for my saying that your "info" is nothing more than garbage. That's being childish. There is plenty of false information out there and just because you believe it doesn't make it true. You're the one throwing the temper tantrum for my saying you're wrong. It's not my job to prove that the Moon isn't made of green cheese.

Like I said, you sound like the person who reads books and think you know everything, despite your lack of street smarts. You never heard of poor whites or rich blacks? You never heard of Oprah Winfrey or Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali? You sound like you want to prove how much you know and you're disappointed when we don't think you're so smart. I've met plenty of people like you who like to boast about being extremely knowledgeable and get upset when told how little they really know.

Make sure you have an escort when you buy a used car, You'd probably paw a million dollars for a car that lost the demolition derby.

CartoonFun - Long Tom wrote: "You call me "anti-intellectual" for my saying that your "info" is nothing more than garbage."

I called you an anti-intellectual because you first got triggered and butted into a conversation when you saw me cite sources. That alone is why you got upset since you hate that. Next, you expressed rabid vitriol at the idea of getting knowledge from reading books and then you put "education" in quotes with a hateful sneer. Wear your anti-intellectual badge with pride, sir. You've earned it.

Long Tom wrote: "That's being childish."

You made unfounded accusations about me, and when I pushed back, you started calling me names. You are a big man-baby. Wear that badge next to your anti-intellectual one.

Long Tom wrote: "There is plenty of false information out there"

Do you somehow expect me to believe one such as you would have the powers to discern between the two? Have a care, please. Save your hot air.

Long Tom wrote: "You're the one throwing the temper tantrum for my saying you're wrong."

Why would I have a tantrum just because someone who couldn't find his own butt with two hands and a flashlight screamed out "YOU'RE WRONG!!!" from the back of the room like a loon? lol

Long Tom wrote: "It's not my job to prove that the Moon isn't made of green cheese."

Thank God. You'd no doubt break it.

Long Tom wrote: "Like I said"

That's actually the problem...

Long Tom wrote: "you sound like the person who reads books and think you know everything"

I'm certain that if all I ever read was a single book, I'd still give that impression to you. You impress easily, wot?

Long Tom wrote: "despite your lack of street smarts."

Is this another comical reference to all the black people you know? I'll assume it's 14 year old male prostitutes.

Long Tom wrote: "You never heard of poor whites or rich blacks?"

Did I not cite the data you hated? lol

Long Tom wrote: "You never heard of Oprah Winfrey or Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali?"

There is $136 trillion in national household wealth. Us whites control $115 trillion of it.

African-Americans control $6 trillion it with $3 trillion of that in pensions. The vast majority of the remaining $3 trillion isn't Oprah's or Michael Jordan's or Muhammad Ali's estates, but in illiquid baby boomer assets. There aren't that many African-Americans among the 1% class, but you think otherwise because you also watch too much tv and proudly don't know anything.

webkilla - CF wrote: "Because African-Americans are not prepared for the workload of the Ivy leagues;"

That is the single most racist thing I've heard you say so far - and yet you probably think nothing is wrong with such a statement

CF wrote: "we gave ourselves trillions and trillions in free land and gibs, so how come we can't do it for our fellow Americans whose free slave labor made the greatest country on earth possible?"

because that's not how money works, and you're talking about a chain of events that lasted for 124-some years. Apples, oranges? If all that land had to be repartitioned out and a "fair share" (whichever wonky way that's defined) would mean taking property away from who knows how many other people - people who've likely worked and owned that land for generations. You want to punish them for the sins of racist bureaucrats almost 200 years ago? Again: Unrealistic demands will never be met.

CF wrote: "Bondage is exactly what it is since they are discouraged from doing anything else to be 'successful.'"

 
Ok I take that thing I said earlier back. this is the single most racist thing you've said so far. Holy shit.

Fuck it, I'm tempted to invite Rasheed back on the forum just so he can have a go at you - because I don't even think he's this bad now. Fucking hell

CF wrote: "You actually attacked him for defending himself and threw him out for citing sources that backed his claims."

You never linked to that mysterious archive page you would need to have, to show our actual conversation with rasheed - that's a no evidence and no-source claim on your end. I guess it must smell good with your head up your own ass.

I'm seriously tempted with updating the review just to add in your nuclear hot takes here. Black people working for white people is bondage. Black people aren't prepared for the workload of ivy league universities. Holy shit.

You are truly the white supremacist with a guilty concience

CartoonFun - webkilla wrote: "That is the single most racist thing I've heard you say so far - and yet you probably think nothing is wrong with such a statement"

Pointing out the effects of racist policies is racist?

webkilla wrote: "because that's not how money works"

How convenient. It only works like that when whites do it for ourselves. Who didn't see that coming?

webkilla wrote: "and you're talking about a chain of events that lasted for 124-some years."

That was only one wave of whites enthusiastically making gibs rain upon ourselves. We do it all the time, hence why we control $115 trillion of the $136 trillion in national household wealth while telling African-Americans "that's not how money works."

webkilla wrote: "Ok I take that thing I said earlier back. this is the single most racist thing you've said so far. Holy shit."

Whites didn't save up our nickels working for somebody in order to control this $115 trillion, webkilla. We used massive, unlimited transformational free gibs policies to do it. When African-Americans demand their right to do the same (they are also citizens, right? it's their government, too, right?) they are told "that's not how money works."

webkilla wrote: "Fuck it, I'm tempted to invite Rasheed back on the forum just so he can have a go at you - because I don't even think he's this bad now. Fucking hell"

You're an asshole.

webkilla wrote: "You never linked to that mysterious archive page you would need to have, to show our actual conversation with rasheed - that's a no evidence and no-source claim on your end. I guess it must smell good with your head up your own ass."

Can you really be this dense? You described and liked to the blog post that Rasheed copy/pasted from yourself in one of your review lines. This is crazy...

webkilla wrote: "I'm seriously tempted with updating the review just to add in your nuclear hot takes here."

Why would I care? Are you serious right now?

Long Tom - Everything I said is true. Since you cannot discredit me or prove one thing I said wrong, you resort to poo-flinging. I am the adult and you're the big baby. Also you discredit yourself. You cite "sources" which I have no reason to believe when I have seen things you obviously haven't. You wouldn't know what "intellectual" means to save your life. All you read is propaganda and think you know it all. Like I said, you know nothing and you keep proving it. The only reason you're still here is because I know Webkilla loves flaming twats like you.

CartoonFun - Long Tom wrote: "Everything I said is true."

I know you believe that.

Long Tom wrote: "Since you cannot discredit me or prove one thing I said wrong"

I did both.

Long Tom wrote: "you resort to poo-flinging."

No need.

Long Tom wrote: "Also you discredit yourself. You cite 'sources' which I have no reason to believe"

lol None of that makes sense.

Long Tom wrote: "when I have seen things you obviously haven't."

I honestly don't want to see any 14-year-old male prostitutes. Plus, it's probably illegal.

Long Tom - I haven't been with any prostitutes. Like I said, you are poo-flinging, lie about it all you want. And you discredited nothing I said, lie about that too. Everything I said is true because it is true.

You're only still here, as I said, because Webkilla has a penchant for flaming cranks like you.

webkilla - Long Tom wrote: "You're only still here, as I said, because Webkilla has a penchant for flaming cranks like you."

Gotta have something to entertain myself with while at work

CF, I think you're done here. At this point you're basically just throwing a temper trantrum, accusing Long Tom of being triggered, and spouting amazingly racist bullshit yet acting as if you're an angel as pure as snow.

EDIT: I just told Rasheed about this fun little exchange. He's still banned from here, but it'll be fun to see what he'll get out of reading CF's posts

Long Tom - OK I banned him. Mynah birds get irritating after a while.

ToothBrush - webkilla wrote: "I just told Rasheed about this fun little exchange. He's still banned from here, but it'll be fun to see what he'll get out of reading CF's posts"

This really was just a stupid waste of time.  

I don't know why you have to tell him about it. He's already been reading the thread. He made a comic  from it like three days ago.

Also, what makes you think he'd side with you? He thinks you're a morally aberrant dumbass. The dude fucking hates you. I don't think he'll side with you just to dunk on some redditor he's never talked to. If anything He's just going to use the last three pages that made you and longtom look like oversensitive bitches as a means to mock your asses. I don't see why he wouldn't.

webkilla - aww damn, I hadn't even noticed that was from us. Good times.

Oh no, I'm not expecting him to side with me - but I am mildly curious at what his take on a "supporter" who says shit like that would be.

Muhammad Rasheed - I'm inclined to agree with ToothBrush, but I did think the gesture was touching considering. lol

Till next time, guys! Ciao!

webkilla - Wow that is just sad. We really are living rent free in your head.

Muhammad Rasheed - You literally created a shrine dedicated to lying about my work and about the anti-racism struggle of my group. lol

It would be stupid not to monitor your racist hate that specifically designed to lie on me. Stop being stupid for once in your miserable life, please. Thanks.

_________________________

webkilla - Hey darling - miss me? Just popping by to let you know that our forum sort of got hacked, which sadly resulted in the 52 pages of hilarity you gave us being lost forever, as well as anything else posted after 2019. On the plus side, some joker popped up batting for you on the old thread, and you will not believe the racist shit he's saying "in defence" of black people. I don't know if you still lurk on the forum, but if you're looking for a little inspiration for another comic, consider checking out the old thread again (though I think Long Tom will still ban you if you try to make a new account) It's amazing what this guy is saying "in defence" of black people - you'll love him

webkilla - oh and I should note that this new joker was supremely triggered by this comic in particular - I wonder why...

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