Wednesday, July 7, 2021

The Bitter Foolishness at the Center of the Immigrant's Anti-Reparations Argument

 

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CITATION
Rasheed, Muhammad. "The Bitter Foolishness at the Center of the Immigrant's Anti-Reparations Argument." Cartoon. The Official Website of Cartoonist M. Rasheed 07 Jul 2021. Pen & ink w/Adobe Photoshop color.

ARTIST'S DESCRIPTION
This #MRasheedCartoons image was created as the cover to a dialogue I engaged in [link pending] with a hostile foreign opponent, who may or may not be an immigrant in the United States as he refused to answer the direct query. Originally responding to a LinkedIn article written by a Black immigrant Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DEI) officer, who surprisingly sided with the American descendants of slavery over our specific reparations justice claim and who should be eligible to take part in the program, my opponent began with a boilerplate, white conservative talking point folio until I walked him down to reveal the true nature of his anger over my people receiving our long-overdue reparatory justice.


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Janice Gassam Asare, Ph.D.[ARTICLE] Thank You For The Symbolic Gestures But Black People Need Reparations | LinkedIn

Kymberli Lovelace - So many of us do not deserve reparations. We must consider the economy and US deficit is at twenty trillion USD at my last estimation in accordance with climate change. I understood tone policing long ago and am angered that I made such a mistake in my post in response to that issue yet I closed my mouth and was ultimately interrupted. Looking forward to SHRM certification rewarded by peace and success!

Janice Gassam Asare, Ph.D. – As a person who does not descend from enslaved humans, I do not deserve reparations but fully support reparations for descendants of enslaved people.

Jamel Williams - My personal belief is that all black people deserve the reparations because all black people are affected by the past institution of slavery , period. It doesn't matter if you are descendants or not. BTW for/from the record, mostly all slaves were stripped of names so that would lead me to realize that tracing ones ancestors back to slavery can be a futile and daunting task for many of our folks today. Bottom line is that there are presently and have always been systems set in place in this, and by this country, that affect the health, wealth, and general well being of nearly all African Americans today!

Muhammad Rasheed - @Jamel… Your personal belief is flattening the numerous Black ethnic groups together, which will ensure the most marginalized Black American former slave class ethnic group continues to be shortchanged due to the continued inequalities now hidden inside of a "Pan-African" smokescreen.

Many Black immigrant groups have median wealth that rivals that of the white communities, while the native Black American descendants of slavery still function as a wealthless bottom caste in their own country from the artificial impoverishment caused by generations of accrued discrimination.

Jamel Williams - @Muhammad… Sir I have no clue or idea of what you are even talking about 🤷🏽‍♂️ Furthermore as I previously stated, ALL black people were/are affected by slavery to this very day. I as most people don't expect those who are not black to comprehend this fact, simply because they don't live daily with the remnants of the aforementioned historic tradegy.

Muhammad Rasheed - Jamel wrote: "Sir I have no clue or idea of what you are even talking about"

This was clear from your first post, which is why I commented to it.

Jamel wrote: "Furthermore as I previously stated, ALL black people were/are affected by slavery to this very day."

That has nothing to do with the fact that the descendants of the Black American former slave class are owed a specific debt to their ethnic group due to 400 yrs of accrued oppression, which left us in an artificial wealthless bottom caste position. The other Black ethnic groups who arrived after the 1965 Immigration & Naturalization Act are not a part of our specific justice claim and if an investigation reveals they were wronged, should make their own separate claim.

Jamel wrote: "I as most people don't expect those who are not black to comprehend this fact, simply because they don't live daily with the remnants of the aforementioned historic tradegy."

Since the elite African families who arrived post 1965 Immigration & Naturalization Act often have median wealth that rivals and even sometimes exceeds that of white families, they will have an uphill battle trying to prove that they deserve any reparations from the US government, since they lack the historic baggage of the Black American ethnic group. Like the other immigrants, their story has been one of ascent, not ongoing struggle through exploitation & plunder.

Navaid Syed - From whom?

Muhammad Rasheed - From the ever-complicit US government.

Navaid Syed - Where the money is going to come from? You probably know that government does not produce anything.

Muhammad Rasheed - The Legislative Branch will pay it out.

Navaid Syed - From where? How? Where the money is going to come from? The legislative branch only draws huge pays and benefits from tax money.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "From where? How?"

In the usual manner, since it's within the Legislative Branch's normal duties to raise and provide public money and oversee its proper expenditure, make laws and provide oversight and investigations.

Navaid Syed - It does not answer "from whom"?

Muhammad Rasheed - The US government is in partnership with the Federal Reserve to generate capital through the fiat credit system to fund big ticket items. This is a normal process in place since 1913 and is how all government programs  like the whites only New Deal, subsidies and other routine free money gifts paid out to white farmers and even to the nation-state of Israel, as high profile examples  have been managed.

A system is already in place that all of the Black American ethnic group's rivals have long taken advantage of for their own economic come ups. Our Reparations program would not be unusual in the execution itself, but only in the fact that it is normal policy to violently exclude us from the benefits of full American citizenry. The nature of your questioning could reasonably be considered part of this economic exclusion tradition.



Navaid Syed - Not really. The federal reserve was authorized to issue gold-backed notes only. Never mind that any type of paper currency, whatsoever, is still unconstitutional.

Muhammad Rasheed - The Federal Reserve was authorized to hold a monopoly over our currency, enforced by the federal government, and to establish the fiat credit system that enabled the nation to pay for big ticket items (like World War I) without bankrupting the nation giving up all of our precious metals. The new system merely duplicated the centuries old banking system established by the Money Trust's cousins in Europe and was the beginning of the American global empire (see: Military Industrial Complex).

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Never mind that any type of paper currency, whatsoever, is still unconstitutional."

Here you go:



Navaid Syed - First of all, the Supreme court has no constitutional authority to amend the constitution. Second of all, let me ask you my question one more time in a different way because either you are not getting my point or you are trying to dodge it. Okay, so the federal reserve issues money. In order to get this money, the federal government will have to sell security bonds to the federal reserve for that amount of money. Security bonds mean that government is promising federal reserve to pay back that money with interest within a certain period of time. Now, who do you think that both buyer and seller i.e., the federal government and federal reserve are expecting to extract money from so that the promise on security bonds can be paid off?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "First of all, the Supreme court has no constitutional authority to amend the constitution."

That is not what you read. What you read was the Supreme Court demonstrating their normal duties to provide clarity to those confused about the Constitutional laws.

Navaid wrote: "Second of all, let me ask you my question one more time in a different way..."

Do not bother, since it is clear from the context that you are against the Black American former slave class ethnic group having our stolen inheritance wealth returned to us. Your hostile attempt to argue a faux-point is merely to justify why it is okay for the dominant group and their loyal "POC/BIPOC" support class to continue exploiting us.

Navaid Syed – Also, whom do you think pays the inflation tax? Yes, it has also eroded about 98% of the value of the dollar. One Dollar in 1913 was roughly equal to 31 dollars today. The current inflation rate is passing 5%. Who do you think is paying this price? From whom is still not answered.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Who do you think is paying this price?"

At the moment I'm more interested in whether you ever express such concerns during government expenditure discussions in which making the American Descendants of Slavery economically whole is not the point of discussion.

It seems like you are only triggered at the idea of no longer being allowed to exploit and plunder Black Americans anymore. Since the "POC/BIPOC" support class would no longer have favor of the dominant white political identity group should Reparations be paid out and white supremacy would necessarily topple in its wake, the root cause of your sputtering, rabid ire is revealed for all to marvel at.

Navaid Syed - You are still dodging the most fundamental question: Who will pay and why? I am not talking about or denying the slavery that was the economic system of this world for thousands of years. The question here is the payment,, and all I am asking is who will pay and why>

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You are still dodging the most fundamental question: Who will pay and why?"

I already answered. The US government will pay. The reason why is because it is a debt owed to my ethnic group. Pretending like I haven't answered the question is disingenuous and reveals the true nature of both your questioning and your heart. For some reason, as an immigrant-tied resident in some way, you seem to believe you should be exempt from paying Reparations in any way you can conjure. The problem with this fantasy is that the United States does not have an à la carte tax system... you pay what American citizens pay as part of all of our citizenry duties. If you venomously disagree with paying Reparations to a group your questioning reveals you believe you are superior to (perhaps due your own people's enthusiastic acceptance of the caste system tradition...?) then you are free to return to your family's nation of origin and my country's traditional baggage will no longer threaten to burden you.

Navaid wrote: "I am not talking about or denying the slavery that was the economic system of this world for thousands of years."

Oh, good. I'm glad to hear that, because if you were, then that would also be disingenuous, since this Reparations discussion is ONLY talking about the 230 yrs of chattel slavery + the 150 yrs of US government complicit accrued discrimination affecting my specific ethnic group.

Navaid Syed - No. Do you understand English. The Supreme court amended the Gold standard clause. Plus world did not come into existence in 1776. Slavery was rampant in every part of the world for thousands of years, It was far more common in Africa. African slave owners actually sold and handover to westerners most of those slaves on the ships because westerners could get off the ships due to the extreme prevalence of Malaria in Africa. About half of the non-African crew still died on the ships that went to an African port. West, including America, actually ended thousands of years old global institution. Just the Ottoman empire in Turkey had more slaves than Americans, most of those were whites by the way. And how does quoting correct history make me anti-black? Both of my grandfathers were more black than many Africans.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "No."

Yes.

Navaid wrote: "Do you understand English."

You forgot the question mark.

Navaid wrote: "The Supreme court amended the Gold standard clause. Plus world did not come into existence in 1776."

You're babbling, Navaid.

Navaid wrote: "Slavery was rampant in every part of the world for thousands of years [blah blah blah]"

Please explain how that 118 word essay is at all relevant to my ethnic group receiving our specific justice claim from our own government.

Navaid wrote: "West, including America, actually ended thousands of years old global institution."

Did they? Because a casual glance at history reveals they just took over the lucrative trafficking-in-persons enterprise for themselves.

Navaid wrote: "Just the Ottoman empire in Turkey had more slaves than Americans, most of those were whites by the way."

???

So?

Navaid wrote: "And how does quoting correct history make me anti-black?"

lol It doesn't. Being against Black Americans receiving reparatory justice because you want to continue exploiting us makes you anti-Black American.

Navaid wrote: "Both of my grandfathers were more black than many Africans."

So? Obviously since this is a slight against my ethnic group it means it isn't about skin color, but about lineage & heritage.

Navaid Syed - Have a ever study economics? The government does not produce anything. That is why it has zero capability to pay for anything. It is the taxpayers and consumers who end up paying for everything., either by direct taxation or by indirect tax incurred by inflation due to the reckless money issuance. What you are continuously failing to answer is why should the taxpayers and consumers like me and my family be supposed to pay for this?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "What you are continuously failing to answer is why should the taxpayers and consumers like me and my family be supposed to pay for this?"

This is the part I've been patiently waiting for you to finally get to. In the United States, we do not have an à la carte tax system. The American Descendants of Slavery who built this nation and the benefits your immigrant family enjoy are owed a debt. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not or want to pay it or not; this is part of the historic baggage that comes with living here, and since you deliberately immigrated here knowing full well the history of systemic racism against my group, you need to eat the costs of living here just like you would eat the costs that come with living anywhere else.

Or you may go back to your nation of origin and send your support of white supremacy from the Internet. It is all one to me.

Navaid Syed - Great. So, how does this period is an isolated incident from the global history of thousands of years? And even with your perspective, Americans are not responsible for what happened before the creation of America. Also, what about the thousands of years ole global institution finally coming to an end here in West and America

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Great."

Right?

Navaid wrote: "So, how does this period is an isolated incident from the global history of thousands of years?"

uhhh... Because I have a specific justice claim to be paid by my US government who was directly responsible for my people's specific oppression over a specific period of time. Why would anyone else's history be relevant in this particular case? Unless it is your sloppy attempt to figure out how to grift the system out of money you are not owed from my justice claim.

Navaid wrote: "And even with your perspective"

Based on what you have typed in this thread thus far, I am unconvinced you understand my perspective. Are you not still engaged in bringing up 100% irrelevant material as part of your argument?

Navaid wrote: "Also, what about the thousands of years ole global institution finally coming to an end here in West and America"

Unfortunately, slavery didn't come to an end in America, since the slave holder class merely built a loophole in the 13th amendment to enable them to continue to fraudulently use free slave labor in a system that continues into the modern day. They just changed the verbiage.

Navaid Syed - Yes supreme court amended the gold standard. Why not? Yes, I forgot the question mark, But, can you focus on the topic instead of wandering around? Because the government has no money. There is nothing like government money. There is only taxpayers money. British ships blocked and fought slave transportation for a long time. The end means, the voice against slavery was raised by westerners, and it was abolished here first. Some trade still exists, and criminal history tells us that no crime is ever completely wiped off the face of Earth. Just a reality of the real world. It certainly does not undervalue the contribution of people who fought against it and ended it. I would suggest you to focuses on real arguments instead of playing with words. You know what I meant. That is what I mean when I challenge your language. Even someone with a minor understanding of English can tell that I did not mean what you are twisting it into. So, it was going on for a very long time around the world. It was not my fault. Why should I pay for it/ My countrymen actually ended it. If you really know the history, on your pretence, pretty everyone living on this planet deserves reparations. But, from whom? God?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You know what I meant."

Indeed. I know that you are against the pay out of Reparations to the American descendants of slavery because you benefit from the system that exploits my people and you do not want it to change. Your rhetoric is nothing more than an attempt to justify this evil in a manner little different from that used by white supremacists.

Navaid wrote: "So, it was going on for a very long time around the world."

Irrelevant since my Reparations is the specific justice claim from my specific government.

Navaid wrote: "My countrymen actually ended it."

Who are your countrymen? Are you talking about the British? Are you living in England now?

The formal end of slavery still required making the wronged party economically whole, and in my people's case, the discrimination continued on for another 150 yrs, so our justice claim includes that accrued discrimination.

Navaid Syed - Government gas zero capability to pay. You are reaching taxpayers' pockets with this claim. Why should I pay for it? What is irrelevant in my comments, for example? The 13th amendment did not end slavery. The whole world ended slavery without a war. We could have done that too. Slavery was simply becoming outdated with all the extremely efficient new technologies, especially in agriculture.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Why should I pay for it?"

Do you live in America as a legal US citizen?

Navaid wrote: "What is irrelevant in my comments, for example?"

Any references to the Ottoman Empire, or slavery in any other part of the world.

Navaid wrote: "The 13th amendment did not end slavery."

MEANWHILE: "The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. The amendment was passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the required 27 of the then 36 states on December 6, 1865, and proclaimed on December 18."

Navaid wrote: "The whole world ended slavery without a war."

The practice continued on. In fact, the descendants of the original European Trading Company officers and ship crews currently live in Africa in populations hundreds of thousands deep each, continuing the obscenely lucrative trafficking of persons.

Navaid wrote: "Slavery was simply becoming outdated with all the extremely efficient new technologies, especially in agriculture."

You're very naïve. Employee salaries are the biggest cost of any business and the free slave labor economy was inherently lucrative. America would not have abolished it without being forced to.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "So, it is okay to hang a son for the murder that his father committed?"

Did the father murder my own son? He can either give up the neck of his own son or pay the amount I say will make it alright for my family. #EyeForAnEye

Navaid Syed - In this example, the father is already dead. So, you will kill the son of the murderer even though the son did not commit the murder?

Muhammad Rasheed - Then your estate owes my estate for the wrong your people committed.

Navaid Syed - So, we all have to pay reparations to Vietnamese as well? Why making slavery an example in a discussion over slavery is irrelevant? It was abolished in most of the world already without any wars. Of course, no crime is ever completely ended. Again, have you ever read economics? Unskilled slaves are the most inefficient and unproductive labor in an increasingly technological world.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "So, we all have to pay reparations to Vietnamese as well?"

Irrelevant.

Navaid wrote: "Why making slavery an example in a discussion over slavery is irrelevant?"

In the same way that a motor vehicle accident in 1940s Florida has zero relevance to a van accident that happened in 1970s Australia.

Navaid wrote: "It was abolished in most of the world already without any wars."

Irrelevant.

Navaid wrote: "Of course, no crime is ever completely ended."

Continued discriminatory practices against my people would require MORE Reparations.

Navaid wrote: "Unskilled slaves are the most inefficient and unproductive labor in an increasingly technological world."

Meanwhile, free slave labor literally built the obscene great wealth of the West and the slaves who did all the work had all the skills.

Navaid Syed - So, guilt by association is okay for you? Have any idea that general acceptance of this principle will throw the whole world in a complete chaos?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "So, guilt by association is okay for you?"

Irrelevant, unless you can reasonably link the principle to my Reparations claim with the US government. Go for it.

Navaid wrote: "Have any idea that general acceptance of this principle will throw the whole world in a complete chaos?"

You're asking my ethnic group to accept a permanent wealthless bottom caste position in the country we built because you don't want the rest of the world to be upset. Does this mean you give up on being taken seriously by me then?

Navaid Syed - Everyone is benefitting. that is why we are here. Bringing slavery as an example in a discussion over slavery is 100% relevant. Americans along with abolitionists in many western countries finally got it abolished.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Everyone is benefitting."

I'm not benefiting. My people are still being exploited & plundered of our accrued inheritance and people like you are supporting my traditional foe as this thread discussion holds testament to.

Navaid wrote: "that is why we are here."

Well, good for you. Must be nice.

Navaid wrote: "Bringing slavery as an example in a discussion over slavery is 100% relevant."

Someone else's slavery in a different sovereign nation has no bearing whatsoever to my specific justice claim to my specific government.

Navaid wrote: "Americans along with abolitionists in many western countries finally got it abolished."

US American slavery was not abolished through the 230 yrs of abolitionist discussions. Obviously, you've never studied the topic and speak solely from an emotional tantrum of not wanting your perceived higher caste position under white supremacy to fall.

Navaid Syed - Who is plundering you except government, and how? My difference of opinion with you does not automatically make me a bad person. Do you realize that? America is heaven for everyone. Not the ideal place but still the best on the planet. Even African Americans are far better than Africans in Africa. Slavery was an established institution for thousands of years around the world. We did not exist in a bubble. We existed on this planet. Let me give you an example. As the trends might predict, in the future eating meat may become socially unacceptable and bad. If in the future someone analyzing Mohammad Rasheed says that he was such a horrible person. He ate meat. How justified that person will be in declaring you horrible, keeping current cultural circumstances in mind? Slavery was not abolished for thousands of years in spite of resistance from some in almost every part of the world, at any given point in time. You have given zero logical and historical arguments yet, and I am the one who is showing emotional tantrums. Sounds like projection. You have even advocated guilt by association in your religious fervor.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Who is plundering you except government, and how?"

I'm being plundered by corporate powers and their cronies among the unscrupulous politician class who do so with impunity. The same as always. The how is by way of the usual checklist of antitrust violations, predatory finance & housing schemes designed to lock my group out of access to capital, credit and the wealth-building ownership class. The immigrants willingly partner in this systemic attack upon my group because as long as I am artificially impoverished into a bottom caste, the newly-arrived immigrants and their descendants hold status over me, hence the nature of your hostility (on behalf of my traditional white supremacist foes) in this thread.

Navaid wrote: "My difference of opinion with you does not automatically make me a bad person. Do you realize that?"

I realize, Navaid, that anyone who wants me to be content having my inheritance wealth stolen from me so that others may profit at my expense, are automatically evil by default.

Navaid wrote: "America is heaven for everyone. Not the ideal place but still the best on the planet. Even African Americans are far better than Africans in Africa."

Your efforts to justify why I should lie down and accept further abuse from my enemies will make me hate you. I suggest you stop.

Navaid wrote: "Slavery was an established institution for thousands of years around the world. We did not exist in a bubble. We existed on this planet. Let me give you an example."

If you were in a car accident, and the insurance company tried to convince you to eat the costs yourself because someone in 1910 Belgium was also involved in an accident, how would YOU feel?

Navaid wrote: "You have given zero logical and historical arguments yet..."

Meanwhile, my position is the logical one with several historical examples, and your position is only a weak attempt to convince me to accept further abuse.

Navaid Syed - What else can make me pay?

Muhammad Rasheed - I can't pretend to know what you are talking about.

Navaid Syed - Why Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Korea, and the Philippines are irrelevant? Those are relatively recent.

Muhammad Rasheed - In what way do you imagine them relevant to this discussion? How are the situations of an alien people inside of alien sovereign governments with their own laws & rules custom to their unique situations that literally have nothing at all to do with my ethnic group relevant to my own unique relationship with my own government?

Why are you relentlessly committed to misdirection logical fallacies? For what purpose?

Navaid Syed - Damage caused, just like you are claiming for slaves?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Damage caused"

I don't understand what that has to do with my situation. Please explain exactly how that is relevant to my people's situation and exactly how you are supposed to be arguing with that material?

Navaid wrote: "just like you are claiming for slaves?"

My government owes my ethnic group for the economic damages caused from centuries of accrued lineage-based discrimination that prevented us from building wealth over the generations. These practices have resulted in an artificially widened wealth gap of ridiculous proportions. The government needs to fix this problem with a robust reparatory justice program that is no less in scope than the New Deal and free land grants programs they provided to the white communities in the previous century.

Navaid Syed - If not guilt by association why a taxpayer is supposed to pay for what happened in the times of ancestors?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "If not guilt by association why a taxpayer is supposed to pay for what happened in the times of ancestors?"

Every region around the civilized world has inherent costs that come with living in those areas. If you want to live in any of those areas and enjoy the specific benefits being a citizen provides, you also must pay the costs that come with each area. In the United States of America, you don't get to pick and choose which taxes you pay and which you don't -- if you are a single man living alone in an apartment, you must also pay the taxes that keep up the local public school and children parks, even though you have no kids of your own. This is normal, and your screaming "Foul!" over a faux-injustice reveals itself only as an attack upon my group who for some reason you don't see as real citizens/humans, etc.

Navaid Syed - Enemies?

Muhammad Rasheed
enemy (noun) - a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something; a hostile nation or its armed forces, especially in time of war; a thing that harms or weakens something else

Navaid Syed - Predatory financing logically applies only to minors. An adult should know better before signing a contract unless his top floor is empty. If you are worthy of credit, not providing you credit is only the loss only for the financial institution because a person worthy of credit can always get it from somewhere else. Wealth building in free markets totally depends on you. Many African Americans have built huge fortunes just because they compete instead of whining. Only government regulation and taxation can block your way. Many immigrants cannot even speak English, never mind the culture and other norms. If you cannot compete with them, shame on you. Telling you that you cannot rob me is hostility towards you? You came from a place that still to date has almost nothing, and now you are better than more than ninety percent of the world population. You should pay us for doing all that favor to you.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "An adult should know better before signing a contract unless his top floor is empty."

Regardless, laws are put in place to protect the layman from unscrupulous business practices designed to cheat and plunder the populace. The monied class frequently uses nepotism and cronyism to create a network of gatekeepers forming a racketeering criminal overclass so they can block out rival groups from access to wealth & resources while hoarding the lion's share of society's benefits for themselves.

Navaid wrote: "If you are worthy of credit, not providing you credit is only the loss only for the financial institution because a person worthy of credit can always get it from somewhere else."

The 1% criminal overclass' number one priority is to hoard power for their colluding cartels alone; they absolutely have proven time and time again they are willing to take a loss if it prevents them from fairly sharing wealth, land and rule with rivals groups. You know this better than almost anyone. In this case, the institutions with favorable credit options block rival groups from access, forcing the desperate to take predatory options which prevent the group from economic inclusion while generating more revenue for the 1% criminal class.

Navaid wrote: "Wealth building in free markets totally depends on you."

It depends on numerous factors, but most relevant to this discussion is the fact that in order for the group to be economically uplifted, it requires both politics and the enormous purchasing power of the US government that my rivals & enemies routinely use for their own successes.

Navaid wrote: "Many African Americans have built huge fortunes just because they compete instead of whining."

Obviously, you are using the elitist Black immigrant groups as your example, while my own people still struggle. Individual outliers build limited fortunes, but this isn't an individual 'bootstraps/striverism' discussion, but a political economic uplift of the group discussion.

Navaid wrote: "Only government regulation and taxation can block your way."

Well, the 1866 & 1964 Civil Rights and 1965 Voting Rights Acts removed the previous anti-Black American government regulations that blocked my way. The Trump administration freed the wealthiest Americans from the heavy-lifting of the national tax burden which by default left the burden upon the poorest Americans, creating new economic hurdles. What blocks my way is that the ever-grifting 1% criminal overclass believes only they get to enjoy the nation's bounties.

Navaid wrote: "Many immigrants cannot even speak English, never mind the culture and other norms. If you cannot compete with them, shame on you."

This is a foolish comment. As the Black American former slave class, I'm the only group who did not voluntarily come here -- I'm literally surrounded by a sea of hostile immigrants and their descendants who clearly hate me. It was through my free labor, blood, sweat & tears that this nation was built and the colluding cartels that make up the immigrant class have placed themselves in the high-caste positions to enjoy the nation's benefits at my expense. There are 40 million Black Americans versus 260 million immigrant-tied hordes, and you all work together to keep me at the bottom of the country's socio-economic ladder. That's what I'm competing against: Goliath, the filthy Philistine, wearing the greedy, sneering faces of the globe's legions of political ethnicities. Shame on YOU.

Navaid wrote: "Telling you that you cannot rob me is hostility towards you?"

You don't get to come to my country and drink of the benefits that my people created and not pay the costs of those benefits. #SorryNotSorry

Navaid wrote: "You came from a place that still to date has almost nothing"

The European Imperialist Age of Western civilization inherited it's might from the previous great Black African Civilizations the ancient Greeks so admired from awe in their writings. The African continent is only broken today as a legacy of savage European colonist inflicted strife, and the modern efforts of Western powers to keep rival nation's unstable so megacorporate doesn't have to pay market prices for industry materials.

Navaid wrote: "and now you are better than"

My enemies will stop stealing from me and I will have my reparatory justice I am owed. Your opinions as a hostile outsider mean nothing to me.

Navaid wrote: "You should pay us for doing all that favor to you."

I've built the wealthiest nation on earth that parasites like you leach off of, and now you want me to pay more. Are you still confused as to what an "enemy" sounds like? Because you're very good at typing like one. lol

Navaid Syed - Do you understand that reparations are compensation for damage caused? Government has zero capability to pay you. You are reaching the pockets of current taxpayers and consumers. The government legalized slavery by law and forced people to discriminate. Why is that our problem? This gap exists all over the world including Africa. Maybe because the average IQ of blacks is significantly lower. The government only creates problems, never solves those. To get out of this problem you guys will have to learn to stand on your own two feet. First of all land grants happened only in the beginning when unoccupied land was abundant. Second, the immigrants you are complaining about did not get any land grants and came much later. They are still well ahead of you guys.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Do you understand that reparations are compensation for damage caused?"

Yup. In this case, it is to repair centuries of economic damage caused by preventing my people from building wealth over generations up into the modern day.

Navaid wrote: "Government has zero capability to pay you."

People, various types of businesses and even the governments of other sovereign nations receive lump sum payouts from the USG all the time, Navaid. Literally.

Navaid wrote: "You are reaching the pockets of current taxpayers and consumers."

Yeah?

Navaid wrote: "The government legalized slavery by law and forced people to discriminate. Why is that our problem?"

Because the wealth built up from the stealing of my people's inheritance wealth over generations is the national wealth at play in the markets. I need that stolen wealth back. It doesn't matter at all how you feel about it. In fact, you may take a selfie of your American immigrant relatives crying about it, print it, frame it and post it on your wall for all of me.

Navaid wrote: "This gap exists all over the world including Africa."

So? I'm only concerned with my people's specific justice claim with my specific ever-complicit government.

Navaid wrote: "Maybe because the average IQ of blacks is significantly lower."

The so-called intelligence quotient (IQ) is a scam. It was debunked as fake. You may toss that aside with my blessing, especially since you only brought it up to be insulting.

Navaid wrote: "The government only creates problems, never solves those."

Well, I need them to pay this debt they've been avoiding for the last 150 yrs. That will go along way towards turning that problem-creating ship around.

Navaid wrote: "To get out of this problem you guys will have to..."

I can't imagine less worthless advice. What have you typed thus far that would give you the impression I would respect anything you deemed as advice? Do you remember your "IQ" comment that preceded it?

Navaid wrote: "learn to stand on your own two feet."

That's not the problem at all. The actual problem is that my wealth has been stolen by colluding cartels of racketeering criminals, who use the vast resources their immoral wealth & power monopoly provides to keep me in a state of continuing exploitation & plunder. My activist efforts are to free me from this evil you have partnered with.

Navaid Syed - Any specific example of the law in this _every civilized place" that makes someone else other than a criminal responsible for the crime? This is what is called guilt by association, and if generally accepted by the civilized world, everyone's hands will be on each other's throats

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Any specific example of the law in this _every civilized place'"

Just grab any random European country that has "free" healthcare and/or "free" schooling with the associated very high taxes that go with those societal benefits. lol

Navaid wrote: "that makes someone else other than a criminal responsible for the crime?"

So paying taxes is magically a "crime" now, huh? smh

Navaid Syed - Tou should thank God that you were brought here. Otherwise, you would be living in a shithole. I am not defending slavery here though. It a dirty scar on the face of humanity, All I am saying that it was not my fault. And now instead of whining and complaining you should learn something from new immigrants, Compete. Africa is in the hole because of extreme government corruption, not because of whites.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Tou should thank God that you were brought here."

Navaid, in this thread, you have partnered with the greed-fueled, wealth hoarding monopolists and proven that you reject the promise of the unseen spirit in favor of lusting for the finite material. I'm offended that you dared bring up God's Name.

Navaid wrote: "Otherwise, you would be living in a shithole."

Africa is "a shithole" only because Western powers deliberately keep the nations unstable on behalf of corporate. That's all. If the events of the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade had not happened, African powers would still be in normal wealth-building competition with the rest of the world as they always had been. You hold a weirdly Eurocentric narrow worldview that doesn't appear to see before figures such as Winston Churchill and his ilk.

Navaid wrote: "I am not defending slavery here though."

Meanwhile, that's literally what you did.

Navaid wrote: "It a dirty scar on the face of humanity, All I am saying that it was not my fault. And now instead of whining and complaining you should learn something from new immigrants, Compete. Africa is in the hole because of extreme government corruption, not because of whites."

lol I can't tell if you are genuinely this ignorant, or if you are only playing a role on behalf of your handlers in a clumsy attempt to persuade me to the side of self-defeating foolishness.

It's not your fault, but you still must pay the costs for living in my country. Stop whining and get over it.

What can I learn from new immigrants who show up into the welcoming arms of their fellow immigrants who hoard all resources just for one another while deliberately locking my people out of access?

lol Africa's government corruption is orchestrated by Western powers as the continuing legacy of European colonialism. Whenever the people wrench control of the government away from Euro-government appointed dictators, the same European powers (or the USMC on their behalf) show up to take the reins from the people to hand back to the Euro-Imperialist puppets.

Navaid Syed – So, you are saying that war and genocide are less damaging. Foreign Aid is ripping off the taxpayers, as well. Two wrongs do not make one right? So, you have no problem in ripping off current hard-working people? I did not steal anything. Get over it. The economic gap is not our fault. you guys are behind everywhere.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "So, you are saying that war and genocide are less damaging."

I've been in a continuous war with the white racist aristocracy since they shot president Lincoln. Their goal is to prevent me from full economic inclusion as an American citizen so they can continue the trend of plundering me of my inheritance wealth so they can live as faux-lords. Why do you think I would care if their ill-gotten whitopia toppled and they found themselves as bitter economic equals with me competing fairly in the markets? That's how it should be, what I want, but what they have violently fought to prevent for a century and a half.

Navaid wrote: "Two wrongs do not make one right?"

My enemy has been terrorizing and stealing from me for generations and you describe the stopping of it and repairing the damage as a "wrong," yet you seem to also think I respect your opinion. Curious.

Navaid wrote: "So, you have no problem in ripping off current hard-working people?"

I'm the one being stolen from, and you lot are rolling around in the heaped up stolen loot giggling and telling me I'm a 'minor' for being exploited and saying my "IQ" is low while to jockey for position in the white racist aristocracy. You think having my stolen wealth returned to me is "ripping off" this group. lol To be honest, the more you type, the more it feels like you are deliberately trying to make me hate you with all your might. Should I be surprised?

Navaid wrote: "I did not steal anything."

You want to live in a country and enjoy all the benefits it has to provide without paying the costs. This is an obvious theft.

Navaid wrote: "Get over it."

What does that mean when you say it? Just so we're clear. I suspect you're just typing it because you saw your white supremacist buddies type it and you're just blindly mimicking the behavior out of simping worship. smh

Navaid wrote: "The economic gap is not our fault."

It's your fault if you take the position of defending it and want it to stay widened at my expense.

Navaid wrote: "you guys are behind everywhere."

That's what happens when one is artificially impoverished by terror.

Navaid Syed - Welfare is not an example of guilt by association. This argument also implies that two wrongs make one right. No civilized law has ever made someone other than a criminal responsible for the crime Taxation is theft, period.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Welfare is not an example of guilt by association."

You forgot that the whole "guilt by association" bit is just you talking nonsense. It's not real.

Navaid wrote: "This argument also implies that two wrongs make one right."

Telling thieves to stop stealing is not wrong. You're using "implies" incorrectly. lol

Navaid wrote: "No civilized law has ever made someone other than a criminal responsible for the crime Taxation is theft, period."

You're spewing partisan foolishness that means nothing to me at all. Are you an atheist then that your entire shtick is to whine about hoarding money? Your stance is a consistently stupid one.

Navaid Syed - Your enemies other than whites?

Muhammad Rasheed - "Whites" are not my enemies. My enemies are all those who uphold and enforce the White Supremacist Ideology, and the anti-Black American, lineage-based systemic racism for which it stands. The historical record reveals that it is by no means only white people who engage in this behavior against me.

Do you identify as white, by chance?

Navaid Syed - Humans came before countries. Some elite has enslaved us in the name of the government. It does not mean that Earth does not belong to us anymore. With this argument, you are basically saying that black slaves just paid the price of living. You are free to compete and acquire as many resources as you can just like many other blacks. Blacks do and can welcome blacks as well. Nobody is stopping you. Even in African places where governments are elected like South Africa, the party of the founder is involved in incredible corruption

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "With this argument, you are basically saying that black slaves just paid the price of living."

In the United States, the free slave labor institution was formally abolished under president Lincoln and he was killed when he started making moves to make the freedmen economic equals with the white populace. Every single government and business decision in the next 150 yrs was designed to prevent my people from sharing in the wealth, land & rule so that the white community would maintain the dominant position. This is the nature of my people's struggle in our country.

Navaid wrote: "You are free to compete and acquire as many resources as you can just like many other blacks."

Am I? How I am able to move as an individual is different from how I can move as a GROUP. This was true during the height of slavery and during forced jim crow segregation as there were wealthy successful Black Americans around during each of these eras. Did their accomplishments on the individual level magically mean that slavery and jim crow laws didn't exist? Of course not.

You don't know enough about this topic, take my enemy's talking points at face value, and somehow believe you are intelligent for doing so.

Navaid wrote: "Blacks do and can welcome blacks as well."

Sure, they do. They also willingly partner with white supremacists against me, too, as you have done in this thread argument.

Navaid wrote: "Nobody is stopping you."

Are you saying that nobody is stopping me from going to Africa?

Navaid wrote: "Even in African places where governments are elected like South Africa, the party of the founder is involved in incredible corruption"

The Dutch communities are still actively scheming for control in those circles. There is WAY too much wealth in the area for them to abandon it.

Navaid Syed - Nothing is stolen from you. Certainly not by anyone living. The country is stealing the fruits of my labor just like it stole from slaves. I mean nobody is stealing from you except the government. Get over it. Why is it my fault while you guys cannot compete anywhere in the world? You guys are pushed behind artificially everywhere in the whole wide world, even in Africa? You got to be kidding me.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Nothing is stolen from you."

Meanwhile, my accrued inheritance wealth has literally been stolen from my people through centuries of discriminatory practices beginning with the chattel slave labor economy.

Navaid wrote: "Certainly"

What are you basing your "certainty" upon since you function at a severe knowledge deficit in this thread?

Navaid wrote: "not by anyone living."

I'm routinely plundered by predatory corporate entities and their complicit, unscrupulous politician cronies.

Navaid wrote: "The country is stealing the fruits of my labor just like it stole from slaves."

You're spewing nonsense out into the void apparently just because you enjoy the sound of it.

Navaid wrote: "I mean nobody is stealing from you except the government."

You don't know anything about this topic and yet you are talking a lot in its direction anyway.

Navaid wrote: "Get over it."

hahaha

Navaid wrote: "Why is it my fault while you guys cannot compete anywhere in the world? You guys are pushed behind artificially everywhere in the whole wide world, even in Africa? You got to be kidding me."

I don't understand the "anywhere in the world/in the whole wide world" portion of your silly rant. I'm the American Descendants of Slavery ethnic group. Who are these "in the whole wide world" people you are talking about? Do you realize I am a very specific ethnic group? Or is this a demonstration of an "all black people are the same" uncouth of a similar level of seriousness to your "IQ" claptrap?

Navaid Syed - You have not told me what other logical principle can make me pay for something that was done long before myself, let alone any legal principle?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You have not told me what other logical principle can make me pay"

I don't even know what you are even supposed to be saying here. Is this a clue that you actually don't live in the USA as I suspected?

Navaid Syed - You are fully included. competitive blacks are very successful here. Genocide and war victims are equally eligible by your own proposition. You are terrorizing us for making us responsible for something that we did not do.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You are fully included. competitive blacks are very successful here."

There are several black ethnic groups in the USA and it is the immigrants who are economically included, not my group. Again, you are typing a lot, but you don't know anything. This trait shows your character in a very specific light, but you don't seem to care how you look in public. Are you so confident then that your fellow immigrants will cover over your dedicated foolishness and make me the bad guy? lol I honestly expect it.

Navaid wrote: "Genocide and war victims are equally eligible by your own proposition."

Equally eligible for what exactly?

Navaid wrote: "You are terrorizing us for making us responsible for something that we did not do."

This line is funny to me because it seems like -- even though you have definitively taken on my enemy's position against me -- you actually expect me to feel sorry for you if you are forced to pay higher taxes when my people are finally made economically whole. lol I suggest you stop saying such things and save yourself from further embarrassment.

Navaid Syed - You will need some Iq to understand anything at this level and as it is scientifically shown that many blacks are not capable of thinking at that level.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You will need some Iq to..."

I see you're doubling-down on the debunked 'IQ' grift scheme. You should stop, even though I know you hold onto it just because it gives you the illusion of intelligence, but your performance in this thread has shown you in the exact light you feared to be seen in. Next time, pick your battles better, know the limits of your capabilities and study the capabilities of your opponent first before you engage.

Navaid wrote: "understand anything at this level"

To be clear, 'the level' we are discussing in this thread involves the facts of history around the centuries of systemic oppression of my ethnic group and the revelation that you not only know absolutely nothing about it, but have blindly decided to regurgitate the empty talking points of my dedicated enemy for no other reason than you hope to gain his favor by the dance. Please note that there's nothing about this that makes you intelligent. Just the opposite in fact.

Navaid Syed - Your ancestors came here with nothing from a place which still has nothing and now you have everything. how did you lose?

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "Your ancestors came here with nothing"

The African ethnic groups that make up my particular family line were attacked, stripped of what they had, branded and shoved into those great stinking ships for transport across the Atlantic. They didn't start off with nothing, echoing the demonic nonsense of the barbaric white supremacist. The European Age of Western Civilization inherited from the previous civilization before it, in the time-honored tradition of the rise & fall of human civilizations; they didn't invent civilization from scratch the way the eurocentric racists propagandize from behind their funky hate shrouds. As a person who seems like he's from his own ages old cultural tradition, you should know better than this, but now I suspect you are actually of biracial stock and trained up as a middleman support class to reject whomever your non-white people were and instead believe the hate rhetoric with your whole heart (such as it is).

Navaid wrote: "from a place which still has nothing"

Western powers deliberately cheat to keep from competing fairly with those ethnic groups in fear that they may lose the baton of power. The white racist aristocracy will literally do anything to keep that from happening as they demonstrate time and time again.

Navaid wrote: "and now you have everything."

My people are the wealthless bottom caste in this nation we've built.

Navaid wrote: "how did you lose?"

We haven't lost yet. We only lose if we despair and surrender, which will never happen, Insha’Allah. The Black American ethnic group is the strongest you know.

Navaid Syed - And how specifically are you tackling white supremacists? By Whining and complaining? By trying to steal? By hiring a gang called the government to rob innocent people? There are many anti-Asians too. Our response? Keep burning your own hearts. we are moving forward. if you can beat us come on and try.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "And how specifically are you tackling white supremacists? By Whining and complaining?"

lol I gave several clues throughout our discussion, and the method is mentioned bluntly on my profile bio. But your severe knowledge deficit of the material as well as your rabid, bigoted hostility towards my group leaves you blind to any kind of truth at all.

Navaid wrote: "By trying to steal?"

In what universe is reparatory justice considered theft? I'm going to generously consider this the problem of English not being your first language. You may wish to take some more classes and tighten up on your proficiency since you sound crazy.

Navaid wrote: "By hiring a gang called the government to rob innocent people?"

Funny how your white conservative handlers never consider the government’s free handouts to them in a negative when their own bought-off crony politicians have stolen on their behalf. It's only when they fear the cold fist of justice about to drop down do they get Über-creative with the narrative.

Navaid wrote: "There are many anti-Asians too. Our response?"

Ah! And from where in Asia are your people from, please? Let me guess... from a biracial community close to a Western military base?

Navaid Syed - You have nothing but baseless stupid rhetoric. Slavery has existed for thousands of years around the world. it was far more prevalent in Africa. Your brothers in Africa sold your ancestors to ahites. And who is stopping you from competing now/

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You have nothing but baseless stupid rhetoric."

You sound like a child having a playground tantrum, Navaid. Is this the extent of your "IQ" powers then? ;)

Navaid wrote: "Slavery has existed for thousands of years around the world."

So? Irrelevant.

Navaid wrote: "it was far more prevalent in Africa."

Do you really expect me to believe that you of all people would have knowledge of anything that happened on the African continent before last month? Have a care, please.

Navaid wrote: "Your brothers in Africa sold your ancestors to ahites."

If they were my "brothers," why would they sell me? lol Is this another demonstration of your amazing "IQ" powers? hahahaha Rival ethnic groups warred with my ancestors and sold us to the European trading companies, genius, we didn't war with ourselves. What university did you attend? I suggest you get a refund since you were clearly robbed, Mr. "IQ."

Navaid wrote: "And who is stopping you from competing now/"

Do you see the national discussion around my Reparations program growing and growing around us? That's a clue for you. ;)

Navaid Syed – You are crazy. you are changing your position a lot. You started with blacks vs. whites. then you went to blacks vs. everyone else. and now you are saying Everyone else vs. some blacks. you have zero clues, unspecified position and just making up senseless stuff as you go. Which specific group of blacks are you talking about? how does it actually differ from Oprah Winfrey, for example? Do you draw your own picture when you draw cartoons? Your whole premise is so cartoonish. So, I have to be politically correct and hypocritical like yourself to look good in public? I come across many ignorant idiots online. but, you are exceptional. Focus on logical arguments which you have made zero yet instead of personal attacks. Quote some facts if you have any whatsoever. stop making up foolishness as you go.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You are crazy. you are changing your position a lot."

Meanwhile, not once.

Navaid wrote: "You started with blacks vs. whites. then you went to blacks vs. everyone else. and now you are saying Everyone else vs. some blacks."

I started with my Black American ethnic group fighting for economic inclusion in our own American society. I've never wavered from that. You, on the other hand, spent the entire argument trying to misdirect the discussion to slavery systems all over the world and throughout human history. You're very good at being a hypocrite, I've noticed.

Navaid wrote: "Which specific group of blacks are you talking about?"

The Black American former slave class ethnic group -- the American Descendants of slavery (ADOS). I've only mentioned it about a million times, Mr. "IQ."

Navaid Syed - You can partner with white supremacists as well. better than bagging and stealing.

Muhammad Rasheed - Navaid wrote: "You can partner with white supremacists as well."

And now our discussion has come to its end, dear Navaid. I've walked your ridiculous argument down to its logical conclusion and revealed the rank foolishness that squirmed at its heart for all to gawk at in awe and wonder.

To be clear, you lust after your white racist masters' gaze, and long to slurp a piece of the scraps they allow to fall to you from the table of mammon. Your goal is to no less be a loyal servant to the White Supremacist Ideology, and in your heart, long to be counted among them as a 2nd rate white man so you may roll around in the wealth they steal from my people.

I suggest you repent, bow down to the One God who made you, and manage to save your fool self from hell.

Have a nice day.









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