Dem Vampyr - I first was impressed with your interaction, knowledge and poise on my FB friend's page and wanted to learn more about you. I find myself disagreeing with most of your viewpoints but willing to listen and learn myself. I look forward to the enlightenment and wanted to send this note just to say I appreciate the way you interact and handle diverse opinion....at the end of the day, we are all equal human beings - that is the bottom line. Trying to get us all treated the same way is the challenge.
...you and I are very likely completely different in so many ways but I feel we do share one essential element that to me is 'glue'....and that is to treat everyone with the same respect...how we get there is the challenge but I am open to all views.....
M. Rasheed - Thanks for reaching out. This was a cool post, and I appreciate the heartfelt civility.
Dem Vampyr - Thanks for accepting my friend request and have a good weekend....I am off to the Carpathians
M. Rasheed - Oh, cool! Have fun. I look forward to interacting with you in the future. Take care.
Dem Vampyr - I can feel the passion in your messaging but strongly feel in order to truly create change (even if one person at a time) the races (and I don't even like referring to humans with the term 'race'...and that is not meant to deny the pride we all should have in our ancestry but using 'race' as if we are not unified by our commonality) need to find acceptability with what is happening and what should be done to combat and overcome inequalities. Unfortunately I feel 'people of color' ('blacks') have to be the 'better' person and slowly enlighten versus a hard core push. Over time I can discuss this more but right now it's imperative you understand my objectives and who I am (a middle aged white guy) who 'has wanted to' and 'still wants to' help this cause. So I will tell you about myself and want you to challenge me so you can hopefully eventually trust me and view my responses with sincerity and not blanket rejection. We want the same 'end goal'....
M. Rasheed - Dem wrote: "I can feel the passion in your messaging but strongly feel in order to truly create change [...] I feel 'people of color' ('blacks') have to be the 'better' person and slowly enlighten versus a hard core push."
I have the rudimentary freedoms I currently hold because of the rivers of blood spilled during the Civil War.
It seems pretty clear that whites will not give up their anti-Black wealth generating systems by my just trying to reason with them. It didn't work before, and the brave men & women of the 19th century were far more eloquent than I.
Dem Vampyr - I don't believe injustices can be 'exposed and overcome' with force and especially with just one side. To me, the best way to 'start' to change the 'bad' whites with the 'good' whites (or at the very least a partnership of 'good' whites and 'good' blacks). And hopefully taking no offense, I would like to simply refer to our races as blacks and whites for our conversations.
M. Rasheed - You don't believe that the battles represented by the Civil War that led directly to the long-sought after goal of releasing the oppressed Black people from chattel bondage could be considered "force?"
Dem Vampyr - That was then...this is now. Force will not work today. And note, the efforts of the Civil War were led by a white - President Lincoln. To bring about change today the movement also has to be co-lead by a white....and a beloved one with established support from all races.
Obama was elected because he was the first half-white President...see what I did there (understand your objective and attack unconventionally)
.....we want our targets to not respond with FU but with Hmmmmm. Anyway, have a good day as I am off to the race (4 kids).
M. Rasheed - Force will work because it's the only thing that the bullying oppressor figure understands. It also happens to have a scriptural precedent as the prophets of the One God of Abraham were often required to draw swords to release the oppressed from the barbarity of unreasonable men. You can tell that whites fear a Civil War sequel because of their nigh-continuous advice that 'force won't work' and Blacks should just shed themselves of their resentments and forgive whites whenever they get all lynchy ("I CAN breathe.") To me, that means whites wish for the unlimited freedom to abuse Blacks at will, and for Blacks to allow it to happen. Under such conditions my people will never be fully free, but will in fact be returned to the chains of chattel.
Lincoln didn't lead from the battle field, and it isn't insignificant that he was the first POTUS killed during his tenor.
Dem Vampyr - respectfully disagree....you will never see in your lifetime what you wish (and that is not force but the end result - acceptable equality). You can only hope your grandchildren see a better day (as your grandparents now see you). Racism (on both sides - yes, there are those that hates Whites just because of their skin color) will never stop but the aspiration is to make that mindset such a discouraged mentality that is in the closet. It must happen with the mind - not muscle.
M. Rasheed - The slave owners attempted to over-step their bounds based on the same greed that fuels them today, Lincoln refused to allow it, and then we had war. Since the greed of the president's enemies was intimately hinged upon the slave economy itself, Lincoln played the ultimate trump card to end the conflict.
Dem Vampyr - I also think there was a human element involved - like we are all human beings.....
M. Rasheed - Obama was elected because in his intelligence, class and poise, he represented the literal opposite of what the uncouth previous POTUS displayed. The people believed in his ability to fix the nationwide damage caused during the previous administration.
My "target" is my own people as I long for them to be free from this subjugated/exploited state that they may be politically and economically empowered and included in the mainstream, and not just 'assimilated integrationalist tokens' supporting white-owned institutions.
Dem wrote: "you will never see in your lifetime what you wish"
People said I would never see a Black President of the USA in my lifetime, too. 😉
Dem wrote: "Racism (on both sides... yes, there are those that hates Whites just because of their skin color)"
Racism has nothing to do with "skin color" and everything to do with the collective ethic groups of Europe conspiring across class lines to establish an economic aristocracy at the expense of the descendants of African peoples. The "skin color/physical phenotype" talk was just the marketing campaign.
Dem wrote: "I also think there was a human element involved"
Agreed. The Blacks insisted they were fully human under God's Law while the greedy whites insisted their prey were but exploitable property.
Dem Vampyr - Wow… a lot to digest but I like it and appreciate you spending the time to respond. Before we can agree on a methodology to collectively pursue 'equality' we need to fully understand where the other's motivations lie. I want you to understand me and have confidence that I am sincere and also outraged and disgusted. You can enlighten me....however I can enlighten you. We come from very different backgrounds. I totally acknowledge and respect your 'outlook'...I don't need to care - but I do and many do - why? because it is wrong and how we treat each other is a reflection of ourselves. I believe if Obama did not have a white parent he might not have been elected (but I'm glad he did and that he was elected). You have seen a black President elected (by many whites - of whom I would hope are not viewed as racists)...I also believe we will see more Presidents of color and women (in the next 25 years). I also think the first female President will be a woman of color (not Oprah or Michelle Obama). I also do feel skin color is relate to racism (read "Black like me"). It's unfortunate but true. Anyway, thanks for your candid feedback of which there will be more to follow. Race relations is something I've been passionate about for decades - to my dismay, I feel the situation has gotten worse and not better over the last decade....
M. Rasheed - Dem wrote: “Before we can agree on a methodology to collectively pursue 'equality' we need to fully understand where the other's motivations lie.”
To be honest, that sounds like the kind of talk that actually prevents work from being done. Typically it’s the background noise behind endless meetings, jockeying for positions of power, and mismanaged resources. It seems significantly more fruitful for those on the ‘Black-hand side’ of the fight to drive their lane (with its already agreed upon methodology), while the ‘white-hand side’ provides funds/material resources to the Blacks where they are needed, as they continue to figure out what methodology they should use to convince their fellow whites that political-economic equality between the races will make America truly great.
Dem wrote: “I believe if Obama did not have a white parent he might not have been elected…”
I think it was Obama’s believability in genuinely seeing the good in the white community and believing in his heart that they could rise to the highest ideals of the nation when it came to finally ending racism that was a huge portion of his mainstream appeal. I don’t think he could have cultivated that attitude if he wasn’t raised by a Caucasian family who not only loved him, but they never talked bad about Black people in his presence.
Dem wrote: “(by many whites - of whom I would hope are not viewed as racists)”
They had their own reasons for voting for him. Many of them performed a dramatic heel turn when Bernie Sanders didn’t get the DNC nod and voted for the VERY racist Don Trump out of spite. That’s not something a non-racist friend would do, Dem.
Dem wrote: “I also do feel skin color is relate to racism (read ‘Black like me’).”
It’s related only as a shallow physical marker to identify the group targeted for exploitation/plundering. Any talk of addressing racism as a “skin color issue" without the primary root cause economic component is all ‘smoke & mirrors’ rhetoric (and probably a racist grifter scheme designed to plunder Blacks even more and guard the system).
Dem wrote: “It's unfortunate but true.”
You want me to believe your prophecies of the future are “truths?” Do you perform this way in front of other white people or just for Blacks whose confidence you are trying to win? ;) lol
A self-confessed ‘middle-aged white guy’ confidently proclaiming that what he believes about the unseen future is factual data that I should just believe as truth because he proclaimed it to be so, is not how you will win my trust, Dem. Just the opposite in fact. lol Did you forget that you initiated this discussion by pointing out you disagree with most of my viewpoints and we are very different in many ways? Tell me, were you surprised when Obama was elected in 2008?
Dem wrote: “to my dismay, I feel the situation has gotten worse and not better over the last decade...”
It’s the exact same. What you see is the combination of fear that the first Black POTUS would release the Black citizens from the effects of centuries of systemic racism and politically-economically elevate them equal to whites during his terms, plus the desperation of forcing in a dedicated “anti-Obama” candidate who would effectively reverse the policies the Black POTUS was available to put in place. Fear and rage is what you are seeing in the populace, coming from the same well it oozed from during Reconstruction and for the same reasons. They thought their anti-Black racist system was secure and suddenly it was under threat. That didn’t make the situation worse, it just made those who benefited from and maintained the situation louder.
Dem Vampyr - I am smiling. Not sarcastically but impressed by your passion. There's so much to digest and respond to that it's overwhelming...and honestly I don't want to perpetuate a defend this/defend that situation. What I state is my opinion - you can accept it or not just as I can accept what anyone else has to say (but I always listen, consider and respect others opinions as long as they don't harm anyone). Question for you...if you could have an audience with any one person currently alive and make one statement in less than 100 words who would it be, what would you say and what would you want to see occur as a result of your actions? No rush on this and give this serious thought (I'll share this with my oldest son who is a high school teacher). To me (see how I did the 'my opinion thing') the future and key to 'real' change is our youth and the responsibility of every parent to teach their children respect, decency, values, equality, spirituality, humility, generosity, social awareness, pride and to educate them and most importantly teach them to laugh and love.
M. Rasheed - An interesting question, but there is no single individual that can help solve this issue. What’s needed is an audience of a dedicated and significant percentage of the Black community who would be willing to listen to a persuasive argument capable of swaying them into demonstrating a Black Economic Boycott of sufficient force to make the white elite want to negotiate an end to systemic racism. Racism is economic in nature, and to cure it will also require a manipulation of the economy. Withdrawing their dollar will cause the entire business class to freak out and they would be willing to talk.
At that point, I would want to see real long-term and permanent progress occur in that regard. Realistically, it might even start off promising – in a perfect imitation of the 1% acting as if they were really willing to give up their anti-Black gravy train in exchange for morality, fairness and common decency – but to actually pull it off would effectively be a declaration of war, and the Black community would have to defend themselves to the death from a literal attempt to return them to chattel slavery.
Dem Vampyr - I don't disagree with your response but would add that to make it more effective there should be a white person (and people of all races) equaling the numbers of boycotting blacks....to me, the best way to see change is through unification for a cause and not create a 'race war' us/them mentality. I would presume you disagree however I do feel we would agree on the ultimate objective - just not align on how to get there.
M. Rasheed - Dem, it's already a race war... "us vs them" mentality. It's the foundational philosophy driving our nation's mainstream culture. The white aristocracy wants for Blacks to simply accept it, and get furious at the suggestion that we are free of that oppression. That's definitely "us vs them." What else would it be?
The problem comes from pretending Blacks are the problem when whites act that way.
Dem Vampyr - The white aristocracy cannot handle a unified effort of all races against injustice. I am willing to listen, understand, learn, agree and act. I am convinced many of my open minded friends (all races) will as well. I firmly believe there is good in all humans and evil in all. Skin color or race or religion or gender or any attribute does not define that.
M. Rasheed - I agree with your logic that toppling the idol of racism will happen much faster if the economic boycott I envision involved the effort of more than the Black peoples alone. Again though, my focus would be that my own people did their part, while the others can help (or not help) as they are moved to – I most certainly would not be interested in Black activist efforts being held up while they waited for your group to finish determining what methodology they wanted to use or whatever. That sounds like the recipe for certain failure, that should they manage to get their act together would most likely repeat the infuriating model of starting out successfully, and then becoming derailed and sabotaged as whites sought to center themselves in the struggle, then succumb to greed and end up joining with the enemy again in a perfect reenactment of the final scene in Orwell's Animal Farm. No, thanks. lol
To remove the temptations of treachery, I think it best that Blacks orchestrate their side of the war from their end, while other [initially] well-meaning groups work it from their end, and let there be Peace on the side of light.
Dem Vampyr - We will continue this discussion....I am middle class and struggle along with my friends of all colors. We care about the ones we love and to provide for them. We strive for fairness for all and are as outraged at any injustice as people of all colors. These are tenuous times and I feel unification for a common cause will be heard louder than if a cause by a certain group that I am concerned will be misinterpreted as about race and not injustice. To me, the key is to understand the injustice and accept it....then enlighten others until it is widely accepted. In my opinion, to think people (white people...and does this include Asians and Hispanics, etc) will not be open minded is closed minded.
M. Rasheed - I understand your point, and I empathize with your appeal for an open-minded fairness from my argument's point-of-view. As l study the trends of history and note the embarrassing number of cyclic betrayals from what seemed to initially be sympathetic and well-meaning white allies, it seems obvious to me that the burden of proving trust is solely in your lane and by rights it should be very, very difficult to win.
As a representative of the Black American, who is still struggling to achieve full civil rights and political-economic inclusion in the land of my birth, l am not in the position to generously wave aside a reasonable, healthy skepticism as to whether whites are REEEEEALLY serious about helping or not. For those who are serious, it's best that they do their part of the work from within their Whitopia neighborhoods for the sake of my people’s protection.
M. Rasheed - Are you familiar with this lady’s work?
Finding Myself in the Story of Race | Debby Irving
You seem to be the intended audience for her message...
Dem Vampyr - I'll check out the link