Gary McCoy - Obama said this morning that yesterday's attack was due to "homegrown extremism". When was the U.S. annexed by the Middle-East?
Jeff Jacques - I'm sick and tired of him apologizing for them. They deserve none.
Rob Spitz - The guy was born and raised here.
Gary McCoy - He's not talking about the guy's birth certificate. He's talking about from where the dude got his brand of "extremism". And it sure as hell isn't America. Or do you think Princess Cruises don't stop in Syria because they're racists?
Rob Spitz - Hatred towards gays is in the media constantly. He could have easily been radicalized here. You think it's just a coincidence this happen right after gay marriage became legal and all the hype about transgenders?
Gary McCoy - You've got to be kidding me. So, opposition by some, to gay marriage caused this? The "hype" about transgenders is by people like myself, who don't want to see a voyeur who uses a fake "gender identity" to get into a ladies' restroom with my young niece or any other potential victim. The guy belonged to the same religion as the people who've actually been "KILLING" gays.
Horrific moment ISIS throw a man off the top of a building
Gary McCoy - Quit using the weak argument people who oppose gay marriage (I've never voiced an opinion on this), are equal to "hating gays". That's a pathetic, and intellectually lazy defense.
Mike Beckom - ...and your pal clay jones is expressing his disdain for conservatives who are today blaming radical islamic terrorism......supposedly for 'ignoring part of the problem'. not sure what the other part may be....but I'm sure, sooner or later, being that fount of superior knowledge that he is....clay will enlighten us.
Todd Schowalter - No shit.
Muhammad Rasheed - Gary, you are 100% wrong on this topic by every possible measure...
|Here Are All The [non-Muslim] People Applauding The Orlando Gay Club Shooter|
Gary McCoy - @Muhammad, I wish I was. But I'm not... ISIL takes credit for mass shooting in Orlando
Chris Bassett - @Muhammad, Have you seen all of the condemnation for this on all outlets? Perhaps, you would like to "enlighten" us on what every possible measure means? Likely you do not even know how to use a ruler
Muhammad Rasheed - @Gary... This shooter was an American, born in NY, who was witnessed by friends and acquaintances engaged in a closeted gay lifestyle for years. When officials point blank asked his ex-wife if he was gay, she said that she didn't know, and confessed that he did have "gay tendencies." Meanwhile, when he would see homosexual couples being affectionate in public, he would have a rage fit about it, using typical "homophobic" slurs -- hypocritical behavior often demonstrated by vocal anti-gay Republican politicians who are later revealed to be secretly homosexual in a scandal.
Where he chose to channel this inner turmoil-rage, and whether the politically opportunistic ISIL claims fake credit for it or not, this is clearly a homegrown domestic terror event. It was an American that did it.
Chris Bassett - Muhammad you are real big on spouting b.s. without any proof. I am still waiting for your response for what does every possible measure means? What is your proof the ISIL is taking fake credit? Are you saying that U.S. citizens cannot be recruited for foreign causes? So I guess by your reasoning when Americans were spying for the soviets in the old days they were home grown. Have you heard about the 911 call the shooter made? You know they do not get more homophobic than ISIL right?
Muhammad Rasheed - It's not "my" reasoning, whoever you're supposed to be. It's the intelligence we've been trained on from the Threat Awareness & Reporting Program (TARP). Go away now.
Gary McCoy - @Muhammad, so when Obama uses anti-Constitutional conservative rhetoric, does that mean he's really a closet Reagonite? And what the hell are "homosexual tendencies?" I have a pink, long-sleeve button-down shirt I'm fond of. Does that mean I'll soon be craving skinny jeans?
The dude was "homegrown", only in the geographical sense. He pledged allegiance to the "Islamic" state before his massacre. Where are they based, Boise? Kinda hard to pin this one on conservative Christian Americans.
Chris Bassett - Once again Muhammad B.S has spoken.On my way leaving I decided to google TARP. Muhammad you can read the whole pdf. How does TARP training qualify you to assess if a Terrorist org claims credit to determine if it is fake?
Muhammad Rasheed - Gary McCoy wrote: “@Muhammad, so when Obama uses anti-Constitutional conservative rhetoric…”
Give me an example so that we are on the same page regarding the reference.
Gary McCoy wrote: “…does that mean he's really a closet Reagonite?”
The President is a well-known Moderate, and has put in place items that support our capitalist tradition. The far left have been infamously critical of this, so if he demonstrates some traits that remind you of past conservatives, this is no accident nor illusion.
Gary McCoy wrote: “And what the hell are ‘homosexual tendencies?’"
Well, in context they would come in two forms:
1) His first marriage didn’t last 4 months, and his ex-wife (from whom the quote came) literally couldn’t definitively say whether he was a homosexual or not. Considering the nature of the marriage relationship, when a wife says such a thing I will assume she means in ways that only a very intimate partner would be privy to.
2) Other friends, police academy classmates, co-workers, etc., admitted that since at least 2006 he frequented gay clubs, made sexual passes to male friends that he knew were gay, danced with gay males in gay clubs, used a gay dating app called “Jack’d.”
Gary McCoy wrote: “The dude was ‘homegrown,’ only in the geographical sense. He pledged allegiance to the ‘Islamic’ state before his massacre. Where are they based, Boise?”
Where he decided to focus/pin his personal frustrations and rage upon was just a symptom that these very American, homegrown shooters often do… Dylan Roof, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, all operated from the same template. Whatever radicalized ideological lens they later decided to focus their personal neuroses through was irrelevant, since it had nothing to do with the actual root cause of what was really going on with them.
Gary McCoy wrote: “Kinda hard to pin this one on conservative Christian Americans.”
Nor would I try as that would mean I was distracted by your strawman argument (I am not). What conservative Christian Americans ARE doing wrong however, is trying to pin this incident upon “Islam” while conspicuously ignoring all of the conservative Christian American shooters who did the exact same things… pinning them on whatever radicalized ideologies those shooters claimed to drive them. This “Bassett” person mouthing off in the post directly above – who’s been following behind me like a puppy, nipping at my heels – claims to have found the TARP training in a pdf. I doubt it, but on the off chance that this isn’t more of his proud, continuous stream of willfully ignorant nonsense, try to secure it for yourself, Gary, and find the portion where it explains the profile traits that actually causes an individual to become radicalized into performing acts of terror, espionage, sedition, etc. This ISN’T about Islam, it’s about the individual and his personal mental issues, that are clear as a blaring noise in the Mateen case, and available in the public record at this point. To continue to insist that it’s about religion is to ignore the facts in favor of deliberate divisive hate of the kind you only pretend to be against. Wake up, step out of your partisan-prejudiced comfort zone, and practice critical thinking for once.
Gary McCoy - @Muhammad, I have deadlines, so I'll be brief. But in the meantime... look -- I found a story of men from the "non-Islamic" Islamic State fighters, who are obviously conflicted homosexuals themselves, distraught over their self-torturous identities, tossing gays off buildings. Gee, what's the common denominator here?.... Oh yeah, radical Islamists killing homosexuals.
Correction: conservative Christian Americans are NOT pinning this on "Islam", but on "radical Islam". I'll admit there's a difference.
The key difference between the American shooters you listed, and Mr. Mateen, is that whatever perverted ideology the former followed, it wasn't rooted in their religion. For instance, there are no followers of Christianity routinely tossing gays from rooftops.
Muhammad Rasheed - To date, this has to be your MOST intellectually dishonest post. Or you genuinely just don't "get it."
To play your game briefly before we go back to the actual root cause of these events, are you going to honestly tell me that the religion of Christianity is pro-homosexual? That the WELL documented, centuries long, anti-gay tradition in conservative America ISN'T coming from a religious ideological base? Did you REALLY just claim that?
I'll give you a moment to take that point back before I beat you up in front of your friends & family.
You just lost your mind... lol
Gary McCoy - Yes, fundamentalist Christians may not agree with the gay lifestyle. I'm not one who judges are pries into people's bedrooms. But do you honestly want to do a body count of gays killed by Christians and those killed by Muslims in the last, say, fifty years? Sorry, that sound is me cracking my knuckles.
Muhammad Rasheed - You said that the anti-gay violence demonstrated by the other American shooters WASN'T embedded within their religion. That's clear crazy talk. Comparing the body counts of our respective radicalized crazies is irrelevant; the real test of your claim is what each of our 'Word of God' source texts say regarding treatment of the homosexual... that's how we determine whether what they do is actually "embedded" or not. Crack your knuckles over that, Mr. Strawman.
Jeremy Genin - LOL
Gary McCoy - Correction: I did NOT say that "...the anti-gay violence demonstrated by the other American shooters WASN'T embedded within their religion." I said,"...whatever perverted ideology the former (Dylan Roof, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza) followed , it wasn't rooted in their religion. You mangled my words worse than Obama does the Constitution.
After foolishly trying to hang the Orlando tragedy on some American-born ideological snafu, I correctly educate you to its roots in radical Islam. When things got down to hard numbers of gays killed by Christian versus Muslims, you suddenly can't find your cipherin' cap.
In regard to your challenge on my faith's teaching on homosexuals versus yours, any Christian knows that the New Testament is the final word of God, having to do with Jesus Christ - the Savior and foundation of Christianity. And it's from there that the ultimate word on how gays and everyone else are to be treated, when Jesus said: "Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another." So stay in the A.D., unless you want to defend every word the Quran says about homosexuals.
Muhammad Rasheed - Gary McCoy wrote: “You mangled my words worse than Obama does the Constitution.”
lol I didn’t mangle anything, you just decided to play slippery-slick. I summed your comment up that way because you pointedly used anti-gay violence in your “for instance” example of the other American shooters… despite those killings being tied to other reasons. I was continuing the train of thought from your own example, which ridiculously implied that the routine killing of homosexuals didn’t have links to direct biblical commands.
Gary McCoy wrote: “After foolishly trying to hang the Orlando tragedy on some American-born ideological snafu, I correctly educate you to its roots in radical Islam.”
You’re being ridiculous again. You would have been better off accepting my advice to seek out that Bassett character’s (albeit probably fictional) pdf of the TARP training from USG Intelligence. There are identified clear traits that will lead to someone becoming radicalized, and the “roots” do not start with the ideology itself. Lots of people subscribe to extreme ideologies of various types across the country, but only very specific types of individuals “go postal” within those groups.
Gary McCoy wrote: “When things got down to hard numbers of gays killed by Christian versus Muslims, you suddenly can't find your cipherin' cap.”
The “hard numbers” you wanted to focus on had zero to do with your actual claim. You claimed that the radical ideologies they killed under weren’t rooted in their religion. The actual hard numbers would be the number of references within their religious source texts that proved that the radical version of the religion DID have roots in the mainstream religion. Those are the real metrics that back up your claim.
Gary McCoy wrote: “In regard to your challenge on my faith's teaching on homosexuals versus yours, any Christian knows…”
I ain’t a Christian, chief, just as you ain’t a Muslim. In this post you are actually pulling your ‘doctrinal expert’ card to carefully explain to me that the Christian believes XYZ about their sacred texts, therefore whatever I believe about it is wrong, and that I should listen to your opinion of the matter because it’s your religion and you know best about it. In all seriousness, do you recognize your blatant attempt to actually switch roles with me in our religious debate? If I go down that road with you it will officially set the precedent for how I expect you to act when I’m carefully explaining that “ABC isn’t Islam.”
Do you choose to go forward? Yes or no?
Gary McCoy wrote: “So stay in the A.D., unless you want to defend every word the Quran says about homosexuals.”
That’s EXACTLY what I want to do, and the whole point in correcting what the actual “hard number” metrics will look like for your claim. En garde.
See Also: Deep Trigger: The Personal Turmoil Beneath the Stage
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