Thursday, June 25, 2015

The Ultimate Strength

Marvyn Moose[shared meme]

Muhammad Rasheed - Forgiveness is personal. I don't care whether they did or not.

Mel Williams - I think the point is black folks are so passive and forgiving. White folks mad at you they're going to be mad till their grave

Muhammad Rasheed - So?

Should we take on the ways of the evilest, craziest psychopath on earth? How will THAT profit us?

Mel Williams - Hey Bible say eye for a eye. Might have to be more evil some cases. It's proven turn the other cheek and non violent doesn't work. But to each is own

Mel Williams - I'm talking more of my past experiences. You have to nip shit in the bud to not be f**ked with. Only wish I'd thought like this earlier in my life.

Muhammad Rasheed - At 12% of the population, with the enemy in control of the combined Armed Forces of the United States, how are we going to "nip shit in the bud" again? 

We were defending ourselves during past massacres and we were still wiped out... black wall street, rosewood, etc.

What do you think would be any different? We can get mad and declare war and be in a perpetual state of busted up warfare for the rest of our lives just like the Palestinians. Is that what you want to live as a Black Man in America? I don't think that's the smart way to do it.

Muhammad Rasheed - The "eye for an eye" doctrine is strict justice, but it is not what the bible (nor the Qur'an) recommends. God said it is best to forgive and cover over faults, and only fight when they directly attack to defend your life. He allows eye for an eye justice, but no special blessings or favor come with it.

Mel Williams - Oh I agree. They'll wipe us out. I'm just saying we're always forgiving injustices. And it's frustrating as hell.

Muhammad Rasheed - I would also consider it frustrating if I insisted on separating the practice from its spiritual base. 'Forgiveness' is a Godly Principle, prescribed to us in sacred scripture to strengthen our souls for the afterlife. It's better to focus on that bigger picture than on narrower, societal issues that ultimately don't mean anything.

Mel Williams - Now that's personal preference. Not everybody believes in those scriptures.

Muhammad Rasheed - Agreed. But it's why I can never consider the decision to take the High Road as "frustrating."

Muhammad Rasheed - Throughout human history, there were occasions when small bands of desperately outnumbered people would overcome miraculous odds to defeat a physically superior force, but in almost all cases, the small bands were hopped up on the high-energy of holy-than-thou zealotry. Since the modern intellectual blacks seem to have a disdain for scripture, such as you are demonstrating, I cannot hope that we would be able to tap into such a force.

Muhammad Rasheed - Naturally I would consider those zealous performances to be no less than the promises of the One God in action, providing favor to His grateful servants. You may interpret them in whatever way science may allow.

Jody Collins-Veasey - I think that I am fed up with people making it about all one race or another. Are there racist white people....yes are there white people who are not racist....yes. Was this a horrible person that killed people yes but that was 1 white man not the whole white race. We are all human beings animals have more sense compassion and caring than we do. It is a damn shame that we cannot accept that there is bad and good in every race and judge people on their actions not their race. The rich one percent rule us all and love seeing this because if we all stood together then we might not let them keep control the real war is rich verses poor.

Marvyn Moose - The problem lies not in pointing fingers but taking responsibility for a reality that everyone wants to sweep under the rug. Racism is an systematic mechanism that is prevalent in many institutions. It is obviously present in the judicial institution, legislative, political, corporate, educational, etc etc. Which means that it is always about RACE. Jody Collins-Veasey you are correct that it is controlled and dictated by an elite population however that elite's was, is and always will be governed by White Supremacist. They care nothing about you, I, and any other race. White supremacy is about power and dictatorship. What this post represented and for the reason I posted it was to awaken and bring awareness to a people who constantly look to their oppressor for forgiveness and help... An evil oppressor or entity does not have an agenda to bring relief to those that it oppresses. The point is well made, not to make two wrongs a right or blame every single white person but to Stop believing the "religious" concepts that has been fed to us that forgiving those that kill and brutalize you will one day make them see the error of their ways. That has never happen in history. No religious figure of any religion used compassion to overcome their oppressor. In fact, and in regards to my friend Rasheed comment, history proves that the minority can destroy the majority dominant ruler...Hallie Sallaise. And even if not my outlook is that if I die fighting for my freedom and independence it is better than serving on my knees.... So the main theme of this post is for those who are oppressed and victims of a system that is governed by White Supremacy to stop thinking that the old religious concept of forgiving and praying will conquer their oppressor. We have to stop thinking that racism doesn't exist it lives just as much now than it did when black people were hanging from trees in the south and the north.

Muhammad Rasheed - Marvyn Moose wrote: "...and bring awareness to a people who constantly look to their oppressor for forgiveness and help..."

I've had several of these anti-forgiveness discussions over the last several days, and this is the first time I've seen the clue as to why the concept actually offends. It turns out it's based on a fallacy and an incorrect understanding as to the purpose of forgiveness.

Marvyn Moose wrote: "...but to Stop believing the 'religious' concepts that has been fed to us that forgiving those that kill and brutalize you will one day make them see the error of their ways."

That is 100% not why people are commanded to forgive by God. If such a thing happens it is only a side effect and a residual blessing. We forgive in hopes that our Lord will likewise forgive us our own sins and transgressions.

Marvyn Moose wrote: " stop thinking that the old religious concept of forgiving and praying will conquer their oppressor."

We forgive in order to strengthen our souls for the afterlife. It is a potent righteous deed as instructed in scripture. God does command us to fight an oppressor until he stops oppressing you. The believers are commanded to come together and establish a community of like minds, and to take care of each other, and compete with each other in righteousness. If an enemy attacks, they are commanded to defend themselves until the enemy stops fighting, and then the believers, too, must stop fighting and let there be Peace.  If a stronger foe does not stop fighting, and continues until you are completely wiped out, then it is absolutely imperative that you maintain the High Road of the Way of God during the entire conflict for the sake of your soul.  Do as you were commanded to do by your Lord and He promised to be with you, and you too may very well enter the exalted ranks of those of the past who overcame fantastic odds to smash a physically superior and arrogant enemy.  But you're not going to do it without coming together, and you're certainly not going to do it without God.

Marvyn Moose - Those are all based on beliefs and I'm sure that we all can agree that beliefs are just that and is not based on facts.. beliefs + believers = behavior. I can't debate beliefs because they have no merit to me as they are only have merit with those whobelieve the same as you. Beliefs are based on ideas, philosophies and thoughts of a long standing institution, many of which have never evolved in their existence while every thing of nature has. So I choose not to debate over someone's belief, I don't seek to ever want or try to change that for anyone. However, what governs my thoughts and ideas is not solely based on religious beliefs but on the reality I'm dealt with and that reality shows me that an oppressor on this earth that I have to overcome for the freedoms that I desire doesn't know the language of forgiveness or peace and for Me, not for the sake of being an antiforgiver or whatever you called me lol, I will stand and fight for those freedoms with my sins just like every prophet from every single religion that I have studied over the past twenty five years

Marvyn Moose - The bottom line in my book and this is just my perspective... Is through this example. You are married with children and an invader has broken into your home while you all sleep. QUESTION do you fall on your knees and start praying and asking God to forgive this intruder or do you protect your family by any means necessary and take this invaders head off?

Muhammad Rasheed - That's not a real question. It's a strawman. Nothing in scripture says that prayer functions as an instant wish/spell/charm.

Only atheists think that way about it (which goes a long way towards explaining why they don't believe).

Muhammad Rasheed - I just explained what God commanded regarding warfare. We are supposed to fight until the enemy stops, and then we stop, and let there be Peace.

Muhammad Rasheed - Marvyn, it does no one any good to simply invent how you believe a system functions, subscribe what you invented to the system in your mind divorced from what it actually says, and then argue against what you invented. In order to have a truly valuable critique about the subject, first you need to take the time to actually learn what the system teaches... which admittedly will take time and patience, digging through ancient texts that may not necessarily be the most exciting reading material for someone disinclined to take the stuff seriously. lol

But if you don't know what religion is really about, how can you truly be so passionately against it? To me, that attitude sounds like an indoctrination, and you are just dancing around on the strings of it without any certain knowledge.

Marvyn Moose - How is that not a real question? Based in what thought process makes that question invalid? Of course it was meant to be rhetorical because common sense and human nature will lead any man to fight and protect his own and his family. Does that not include his rights and liberties over an oppressor. Nothing about me is atheist, more of common sense. Nor is it a sham argument to set anyone up which is exactly why I don't debate beliefs.

Muhammad Rasheed - Marvyn Moose wrote: 'How is that not a real question?"

Because that's not how prayer works. ANYWHERE.

Muhammad Rasheed - Therefore the question is nonsense.

Marvyn Moose - That's exactly why I don't debate over religion. You know me that well huh?

Muhammad Rasheed - I know what you've TYPED. Your knowledge of the topic, and the quality of the same, is well-documented above.

Muhammad Rasheed - Go on now. That's enough.

Marvyn Moose - Lmao why are you so worked up? Not once have I even attempted to insert any knowledge about religion from what I've studied on here because I knew beforehand where it would lead, you concluded what you assume I know based on this post.. I will continue to respect you by not using terms like "go on now" as if you are dismissing me. I'LL TAKE THE HIGH ROAD LOL

Muhammad Rasheed - The High Road from you would've been actually supporting your position using logic & reason, as opposed to pulling out your obviously flimsy credentials. That was your window to save face and walk away then.

I'm worked up because I actually think you are cool, and it genuinely bothers me that you decided to go down this path. Bad form, sir.

Muhammad Rasheed - You do NOT know the religion. Stop it.

Marvyn Moose - The one thing I learned from my religious studies is to respect each person belief and opinions. Never do I engage in discrediting someone based off of what their perspectives are especially on social media. I stated very early on that I don't debate over religion or beliefs and have my reasons why. Actually the intent of the original post had nothing to do with religious debate. If I offended you then I certainly apologize. We are brothers who have families that I know for certain want the best in life for. Our beliefs at this point may indeed differ, however let's end this on a good note. There is nothing I want more than to see you, I and my dear friend Jody Collins-Veasey enjoying the freedoms that is our God given right. Can we shake hands over fb and agree on that?

Muhammad Rasheed - Peace, Marvyn. Have a good day.

Marvyn Moose - U to my friend

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