Muhammad Rasheed - Koch brothers donate $25 million to United Negro College Fund
1 "Take care! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired, because then you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven.
2 When you give a gift to someone in need, don't shout about it as the hypocrites do -- blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I assure you, they have received all the reward they will ever get.
3 But when you give to someone, don't tell your left hand what your right hand is doing.
4 Give your gifts in secret, and your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you.
Ba Sheer Abdul Musawwir - ...these two. Everry time I hear or see of them, all I can think of is Camel through the Eye of A Needle
Debra Ann Collins - Hey, what's that stinky smell?!? Oh, it's Koch money.
Jerry Lee Brice - Blood money.
Gerald Welch - How is this any different than George Soros?
Muhammad Rasheed - Is George Soros normally very secretive about his giving, but throws a parade w/photo-op when he gives money to disenfranchised groups?
Gerald Welch - No, what's the difference between one white guy who gives predominantly to one party and two white guys who give predominantly to the other party?
Muhammad Rasheed - In the article, they're not giving to a "party" they are specifically stepping from behind their wall of philanthropic secrecy to give to a particular GROUP, in a way that sets off the Matthew 6 flag.
Gerald Welch - No, I understand THAT part. I'm just wondering why everyone on the left is so worked up about the Kochs and why everyone on the right is so worked up over Soros.
Muhammad Rasheed - I can't help you with that since I had to look up Soros just now to see who he was.
Gerald Welch - He's the left's version of the Kochs.
Muhammad Rasheed - Is he normally very secretive about his giving, but throws a parade w/photo-op when he gives money to disenfranchised groups?
Muhammad Rasheed - That's the reason why the Koch Bros. got my attention today. Soros hasn't been on my radar.
Gerald Welch - Dunno. I just find it funny when the right is all up in arms about Soros but think the Kochs are just fine and the left is going crazy over the Kochs but have no problem taking Soros' money.
Muhammad Rasheed - I understand your question, but that's not the point of the thread topic.
Muhammad Rasheed - It'll be more fun to compare the two if this Soros did the same thing as the above.
Muhammad Rasheed - If he's a lot more discrete and not such a hypocritical photo-op chaser he'll be a lot more boring and probably won't pop up on my radar.
Gerald Welch - Well, since that is the point of your thread, Soros isn't publicity shy. There is always some kind of announcement of who he is giving money to.
So, since the scripture is not about people who are normally shy and THEN tell about their giving, but rather people who call attention to themselves, Soros is equally as guilty.
Muhammad Rasheed - The scripture is about the heart of the person who is doing the giving in public. You can give in public without only doing it to be seen of men, but to be genuinely helpful. It's actually possible. In the Qur'an God says you can give publicly IF you are doing it from the right place. Soros began his philanthropic efforts to genuinely help in the 1970s when he helped struggling blacks attend the University of Cape Town during apartheid, and funded the protesting groups behind the USSR's wall. In his case his public giving functions as a "concerned citizen doing his part" example for the rest of us. The Koch brothers by contrast, gave every impression of a weak and token effort to court the black vote for some project they are planning.
That's the impression they gave ME, and it was as obvious as a blaring noise.
Gerald Welch - I have no doubt it was politically motivated, but I can still recognize the money was sent to a good cause.
Gerald Welch - BTW, my comment was in reference to the first three replies, which appear to only address the fact that they are rich.
Does Ba Sheer think the same thing about Soros?
Does Debra think that Soros money stinks?
Does Jerry Lee Brice think Soros money is blood money?
Muhammad Rasheed - Gerald Welch wrote: "I have no doubt it was politically motivated, but I can still recognize the money was sent to a good cause."
lol Sure, the money is still spendable, Jerry. It's the sliminess of the whole scenario that was the issue. "Ew."
Like the murderous neighborhood drug kingpin buying everyone a spread on Thanksgiving.
Gerald Welch - Did you really just compare them to murderers and drug kingpins?
Muhammad Rasheed - Yup. I'm doing my Ben Carson impression.
Gerald Welch - lol, love me some Ben Carson!
Derrick Okai - Well could the ostentatiousness be a ploy to evoke opulent others to donate.
The affluent do like to out bid each other.
Muhammad Rasheed - Derrick Okai wrote: "Well could the ostentatiousness be a ploy to evoke opulent others to donate."
Anything is possible. I seriously doubt that's what the Koch's Bros are doing, but it may be true by some queer twist of fate.
Chris Suess - well then don't accept their money, it's pretty easy.
Muhammad Rasheed [looks around]
Muhammad Rasheed - Nobody gave me any money, Chris.
Chris Suess - I'm talking about the 25 million... if they offend you then don't take their money.
Muhammad Rasheed - [checks my mail box]
Muhammad Rasheed - uhhh... Nobody gave me $25 million, Chris.
Muhammad Rasheed -
Chris Suess - maybe I am missing the point of the article then. I'm just saying that if you don't like the Koch brothers, then don't accept their donation.
for example if Soros came up to me and offered me 25 million dollars for what ever reason, I would tell the twat to go fuck himself.
Muhammad Rasheed - And I'm saying that since the Koch bros never offered me any money, I can't reject their offer.
Chris Suess - but the United Negro College fund sucked that shit right up.
Muhammad Rasheed - Well, that's goody-goody-gum-drops for them then, innit? Is the United Negro College Fund commenting in this thread?
Chris Suess - maybe they haven't woken up yet...
Muhammad Rasheed - Maybe you should wait for them to show up and then give them the suggestion, assuming the accepting board members share my point of view, which I doubt.
Chris Suess - I don't think that they are complaining about it... of course you could always say no to them when it's time for your daughter to go to school, or refuse to apply to them.
Muhammad Rasheed - Say "No" to whom, and apply to what, Chris?
Chris Suess - for that dirty money from the United Negro College Fund.
Muhammad Rasheed - By the time River-Jewel is ready for college, that $25 million would be long gone. Plus I don't care about spending dirty money, I just disapprove of that fake photo-op shit (see: Matthew 6:1-4)
Chris Suess - shrugs shoulders... guess I didn't get the point then. according to the article it seems like the UNCF was the one that made the announcement and apparently they have been donating money for years.
Rob Leigh - From what I can glean from the linked article, the announcement of the donation came from the UNCF, not the Koch Bros.
Muhammad Rasheed - "Such a highly-publicized gift is unusual for Charles Koch. His foundation routinely gives away lots of money, but typically with little fanfare. 'Increasing well-being by helping people improve their lives has long been our focus,' Charles Koch said in a statement."
No, it sounds like Koch made the announcement, and the press got a quote from the receiver to tell them how they felt about it.
Muhammad Rasheed - "UNCF president and chief executive Michael Lomax said, 'UNCF is proud to announce this new scholarship program that will help...'"
The UNCF announced what they are doing with the money, but the gift itself came from a "highly-publicized" PR move.
Rob Leigh - Where do you see that the Koch Bros. pulled the trigger first on the announcement? I'm not calling you a liar, but I don't see it.
Chris Suess - you clearly didn't get your updated decoder ring.
Muhammad Rasheed - If it was the UNCF's announcement, then why are they calling it "Such a highly-publicized gift is unusual for Charles?"
Rob Leigh - Because it's the Washington Post.
Muhammad Rasheed - It's the Koch's PR move, and when the UNCF divided it up into the programs they announced what they were doing with it.
Rob Leigh - Are you speculating or do you have info which supports that?
Muhammad Rasheed - It says it right there in the article.
Muhammad Rasheed - Such a highly-publicized gift is unusual for Charles Koch. His foundation routinely gives away lots of money, but typically with little fanfare.
Muhammad Rasheed - Does that sound like the UNCF's initiative?
Rob Leigh - That doesn't indicate a timeline, Muhammad. You're speculating. You may be right, but that can't be determined definitively from this piece.
Chris Suess - I looked for a announcement from Koch Industries and I can't find anything... just a few leftist articles commenting on it, and most of them pretty ungrateful about it.
Muhammad Rasheed - "Georgia-Pacific supported UNCF going back four decades."
Koch Industries acquired the company Georgia-Pacific in 2005.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol
Rob Leigh - ???
Muhammad Rasheed - They're taking advantage of Georgia-Pacific's relationship with UNCF to heal their reputation in time for the 2014 elections, Rob!
Muhammad Rasheed - Gah!
Chris Suess - you mean being the Communist Parties scapegoats right?
Muhammad Rasheed - Wha?
Muhammad Rasheed - Look... Tonya Mullins is the Communications & Marketing Director for the Charles Koch Foundation. Her team's the one that built the press release fact sheet that all of these reporters are using to write their stories on this. It has all the quotes and shit already built into it, per her expertise. There's also a Melissa Cohlmia, Koch Companies Public Sector, LLC associated with it, and a Anthony Owens for UNCF.
Muhammad Rasheed - Obviously it's a PR campaign announcement from Koch, not the UNCF.
Muhammad Rasheed - BAM!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - Now get off my Timeline!
Gerald Welch - Cool note; the guy the Joker is looking at in that picture is Democratic Senator Patrick Lahey (sp?)!
Ba Sheer Abdul Musawwir - @Gerald Welch: BTW, my comment was in reference to the first three replies, which appear to only address the fact that they are rich. Does Ba Sheer think the same thing about Soros?....Well Gerald, I can not answer for the other people you named, but let me do so for myself. It is not the fact that they are rich. It is some of the things that they have done with their money. Such as the elections in that mid western town where they saturated peoples mailboxes wiith underhanded mail. Having been made aware of their dealings in the past and present, I myself have found these two Innovative accounting principles.... questionable...And yes, I have long ago pulled the list of company names that they dabble in and have long since removed my self contributing to the same.
Chris Suess - I don't think you can Bam your own comment.
Muhammad Rasheed - I'M PRETTY SURE I JUST DID!
Chris Suess - I think it's the internet equivalent of screwing your own mom... but I'm old and not really hip to the younger generation.
Muhammad Rasheed - BAM!!!
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm 43, what do I care about the younger gen? I'm on my own program.
Rob Leigh - BAM nothing. There is no way from the article you cited that you can declare with absolute certainty which party made the announcement first. You are speculating, pure and simple. You may believe it to be so, you may want it to be so, but your own source does not support it.
As I said earlier, I'm not claiming to know whether the charity released the statement first or whether the donor did (who they are is immaterial to the discussion). I'm saying that can't be determined from the piece you supplied. On the other hand, you are making claim to know for sure based on the same article.
I am open to either possibility, you, for reasons known only to yourself have dug in and can't entertain the idea that you may be wrong. That makes me question whether you are truly interested in honest debate and searching for truth or simply desire to declare yourself the smartest person in the room.
I still think you're a heckuva a guy, and hope for only good things to come your way, but I'm more interested in honest, open and enlightening discussion. I suspect you just want win.
(Incidentally, both the UNCF and the CKF websites have posted the same press release, dated yesterday, the first sentence of which reads: “The United Negro College Fund (UNCF), the nation's premier scholarship organization, announced today that it has received a $25 million grant from Koch Industries, Inc. and the Charles Koch Foundation.” You'll note it does not say “The Charles Koch Foundation has announced…” There is no author credited.)
Muhammad Rasheed - Rob Leigh wrote: “BAM nothing.”
How dare you!
Rob Leigh wrote: “There is no way from the article you cited that you can declare with absolute certainty which party made the announcement first.”
Sure I can. If this is a UNCF announcement, then why are they saying "Such a highly-publicized gift is unusual for Charles Koch. His foundation routinely gives away lots of money, but typically with little fanfare.” If it’s UNCF’s thing, why are they calling it Koch’s fanfare?
Rob Leigh wrote: “You are speculating, pure and simple. You may believe it to be so, you may want it to be so, but your own source does not support it. As I said earlier, I'm not claiming to know whether the charity released the statement first or whether the donor did (who they are is immaterial to the discussion). I'm saying that can't be determined from the piece you supplied. On the other hand, you are making claim to know for sure based on the same article.”
I’m analyzing that and the press materials they built from it. The evidence shows it is just a slimy political move from the two slimy billionaires.
Rob Leigh wrote: “I am open to either possibility, you, for reasons known only to yourself have dug in and can't entertain the idea that you may be wrong.”
lol That’s not true, or I wouldn’t have taken you and Chris’ challenge and dug into it deeper. If that were so, I wouldn’t be going back and forth with you two. I would’ve said, “Such-n-such and THAT’S IT!” And the thread would be seven posts long. The fact of the open back and forth represents my open mind. I believe I’m 100% right, but it's possible that I could be wrong and am reading your posts patiently to see what you have. I am also ungenerously inclined to NOT give these two the benefit of the doubt. When I see “old billionaire conservatives with political ambitions” I automatically think “fucking sleazy slimeball assholes,” the same as they think “criminal lowlife thug” when they see a black kid in a hoodie. They’ll be okay. No one is shooting them dead in the streets every two weeks. The evidence shows this is just a big slimeball PR move to court a vote from people they only pretend to give a shit about so they can acquire more power. Like Chris, you’re inclined to lean the other way and give them the benefit of the doubt. You’re not even trying to analyze it, you’re just swallowing Mullins’ PR bs at surface level because they remind you of your uncles or whatever. lol
Rob Leigh wrote: “That makes me question whether you are truly interested in honest debate and searching for truth or simply desire to declare yourself the smartest person in the room.”
I already know I’m not the smartest person in the room, that’s why I want to talk about these things. If it were other wise, then I would contemptuously not even entertain the back and forth.
Rob Leigh wrote: “I still think you're a heckuva a guy, and hope for only good things to come your way…”
Thank you. I want the same for you, of course.
Rob Leigh wrote: “…but I'm more interested in honest, open and enlightening discussion. I suspect you just want win.”
I’m interested in both. When you play chess do you only enjoy the intense back and forth but hold disdain for the win? Is winning the game beneath you? Less noble? lol
Rob Leigh wrote: “(Incidentally, both the UNCF and the CKF websites have posted the same press release, dated yesterday, the first sentence of which reads: “The United Negro College Fund (UNCF), the nation's premier scholarship organization, announced today that it has received a $25 million grant from Koch Industries, Inc. and the Charles Koch Foundation.” You'll note it does not say “The Charles Koch Foundation has announced…” There is no author credited.)”
You can tell from the content that of the two PDFs, the UNCF-Koch FAQ was supplied by Koch, and the UNCF-Koch Fact Sheet was supplied by UNCF. The former explains why they gave them the money, while the latter breaks down what UNCF did with the money and how the programs break down, etc. The press release itself has some of this info, plus many quotes from Charles Koch. That means the release was put together by Koch’s Director of Communications & Marketing who has that info on hand. The release and other articles also go out of their way to talk about the relationship between UNCF and Koch… but they don’t HAVE a relationship. The Atlanta-based Georgia-Pacific had the forty-year relationship with them, and even after their acquisition by Koch, continues to be independently operated and managed, and maintains its relationship with UNCF. “Curley Dossman, president of the Georgia-Pacific Foundation, said it's because of that long-standing relationship that UNCF approached Koch about the new gift.”
“Koch Industries has a history of supporting UNCF dating to 2005, when it acquired the company Georgia-Pacific. Georgia-Pacific supported UNCF going back four decades. Since 1995, Georgia-Pacific and Koch have donated more than $1.5 million to UNCF, according to Koch.”
Koch doesn’t HAVE a history of supporting UNCF, Georgia-Pacific does. That’s bullshit corporate PR opportunistic nonsense.
“The Kochs have relied on a complex tax and campaign finance system to keep most of their donations shrouded in mystery, and several of the groups they fund do not have to disclose the names of their donors in real time. In many cases, years pass before the Kochs' level of giving is disclosed.” (Huff Post article)
UNCF approached Koch, Inc. for a donation because of their link to Georgia-Pacific, and Koch saw it as a PR op. His Director of Communications & Marketing is on the job of using this to clean up their image so they can not get smashed so completely like they did in the last two presidential elections. They need some of that black vote.
“The Charles Koch Foundation's mission, according to its tax forms, is to advance ‘liberty and economic freedom by educating students in a classroom.’ That foundation does not directly fund political operations.”
MORE corporate bullshit speak. Do you HAVE to fund political operations directly?
“Super PACs, officially known as ‘independent-expenditure only committees,’ may not make contributions to candidate campaigns or parties, but may engage in unlimited political spending independently of the campaigns. Unlike traditional PACs, they can raise funds from individuals, corporations, unions, and other groups without any legal limit on donation size.”
Bullshit corporate-political fucking spin jobs. ALL OF IT!
UNCF is just jumpin’ though the hoops because they need that money, they don’t care. “Yes, Ms Mullins! We’ll write it up just like you say!”
Muhammad Rasheed - BAM!!!!!!
See Also: For Love of Doing Good
See Also: For Love of Doing Good