Monday, May 25, 2015

For Real Americans Only

As long as it doesn't get in the way of things, I got no problem with this in any way.

Graylan Zuckerberg Davis - That's pretty bad ass, actually.

Adam Stines - How so?

Muhammad Rasheed - I thought the Army was always that loose with how they did stuff. Let the USMC try this and then I'll be impressed.

Graylan Zuckerberg Davis - @Adam Stines… What do you mean "how so?"

Adam Stines -  It's exactly what it means how is this bad ass?.Who will this benefit and why?Army uniform regulations are in place for more reasons then just how to properly wear the uniform.To alter them for this?.Now?.

Adam Stines - So he's granted a religious exception for this what will the next exception be?Its the military folks,The U.S. Military if you don't agree with all that comes with being enlisted don't enlist you don't have to,What if he decides due to his religious beliefs that now as a U.S. Soldier he cannot fight those of the same belief and puts a risk the lives of other men and women?.Its not good.Admirable maybe but not good.You enlist to serve,To serve the people of still the greatest nation in the world not to further your religious agenda or your fashion sense.

Muhammad Rasheed - The uniform has changed numerous times over the centuries, Adam. Sometimes it changed just because leadership said it was a little cheaper. It's actually not a big deal. If it was, then we'd still be wearing high leather collars and powdered wig accessories. You're getting upset just because of how the visual symbol of the above image is falling on you, which is actually intolerant and unreasonable. 

The American citizen is composed of several differing religions, ethnic groups, races, etc. If that guy wasn't an American he wouldn't be in the uniform in the first place, right? You need to relax, and maybe rethink your worldview.

Adam Stines - Before we go there I understand that this is part of the makeup of America and being open for "Everyone" of every belief is at the very core of what this nation is about.But we're talking exception made in the military that you should know have a habit of becoming far reaching and pervasive.Exception over the years have been made for tattoos and yes religious considerations but it's the military there is a degree of personal luggage you have to leave at the door when you enlist.

Muhammad Rasheed - Why isn't it equally okay for anything with a European origin or traditional significance to be left at the door then as well? Such as any and all references to Christian doctrine, anything that may have been inspired from the ancient Roman armies, etc.?

Muhammad Rasheed - But those items stay, right? Because they give you comfort, and make the world seem "right?"

Muhammad Rasheed - None of the items you are getting upset over have anything to do with the "nationalism" aspect of being an American citizen, Adam.

Muhammad Rasheed - I can still hold onto the "comfort items" as you say of my ethnic/racial/cultural identity... just like the Euro-soldier does... and be proud of my country. I find your "THIS IS MINE AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!" attitude over this item to be enlightening. 

But not surprising. It's true to type.

Adam Stines - True to type huh? What exactly do you mean?

Muhammad Rasheed - Your attitude expressed in this thread seems to sit firmly within the "America is for REAL Americas!" sub-ideology of a certain demographic. One I frequently engage in debate with and is quite familiar to me. 

What did you think I meant?  :)

Adam Stines - Not at all what I said.As the son of an Irish immigrant that would be a pretty ridiculous stand to take would it not?You have an axe to bury go bury it.

Adam Stines - u•ni•form
not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.
"blocks of stone of uniform size"
synonyms: constant, consistent, steady, invariable, unvarying, unfluctuating, unchanging, stable, static, regular, fixed, even, equal More
denoting a garment forming part of a person's uniform.
"black uniform jackets"
the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools.
"airline pilots in dark blue uniforms"
synonyms: costume, livery, regalia, suit, ensemble, outfit; More
a code word representing the letter U, used in radio communication.
make uniform.

Adam Stines - Oh yeah,In case I forgot.Muhammad,This is ours and your welcome to share it.

Muhammad Rasheed - You're using "uniform" in a way that isn't accurate considering the actual usage in history. As I mentioned it has changed numerous times, even inside the dozen or so years since I've been in.

Muhammad Rasheed - Adam Stines wrote: “Not at all what I said.”

Then tell me why the above image is upsetting you, please?

Adam Stines wrote: “As the son of an Irish immigrant that would be a pretty ridiculous stand to take would it not?”

Intolerance, discrimination, and racism are illogical by their nature, Adam.

Adam Stines wrote: “You have an axe to bury go bury it.”

Is that an order, or an official granting of permission from the authority of your white privilege? lol

Adam Stines - Yes it has but there has always been the uniform standard with every change having served like you say you surely can't argue that.One could wear a let's say Dodgers ball cap in uniform simply because they can prove it brings them comfort while in full dress right?Or maybe I have that wrong to because I'm so to "type".

Adam Stines - I have white privilege?..

Muhammad Rasheed - Are you white?

Adam Stines - Gotta few issues don't ya.

Muhammad Rasheed - Well, between the two of us, which one has a problem with the idea of a non-white American in a military uniform with a turban on it? Does that somehow compromise his American-ness? lol

Adam Stines - Never questioned his American ness.Did I

Muhammad Rasheed - Sure you did. You think him bringing his "comforts" with him into the military... the same as your folk bring your own "comforts"... somehow means he is compromising the US military and lessening it, and it means more to him than being an American. That's why you're freaking out. Isn't it?

If not, then tell me what your freak out is about exactly, please.

Adam Stines - No freak out here.

Adam Stines - Too sharp for me Muhammad..

Muhammad Rasheed - Nah. I think you just don't want to talk about it on FB.

Adam Stines - I've talked about have I not?Think I explained my reasons why,Just haven't fit into the box that you want me to.And that's okay Muhammad.You accused me of racism among other things and I present to you sir that it is you who are making racial comments and laying down stereo types.So go have a day Muhammad an reflect on the lives laid down be them Muslim or Christian or "Belief system here" so that we can have this disagreement/debate.

Adam Stines - I'm man enough to say I could be wrong in my view point,But that's just it right it's my opinion,Can you Muhammad?

Muhammad Rasheed - Adam Stines wrote: “I've talked about have I not?”

You started talking about it with me, and then conspicuously started ducking questions at the end there. Tsk.

Adam Stines wrote: “Think I explained my reasons why,Just haven't fit into the box that you want me to.”

You asked how does allowing other ethnic groups to also allow their own culturally important symbols, and sacred belief system items, to be reflected in the military uniform, like the Euro-ethnic has, benefiting anyone. You then equated those sacred religions items with “wearing a baseball cap.” 

Trust me; you fit snugly within that intolerant, uninsightful box as if it was custom-made around your frame.

Adam Stines wrote: “And that's okay Muhammad.”

Is it? How does you thinking that way make anything okay? Your demographic thinking that way is the root cause to a lot of western society’s ills.

Adam Stines wrote: “You accused me of racism among other things and I present to you sir that it is you who are making racial comments and laying down stereo types.”

You’ll have to do better than simply proclaiming it so. Show me. 

Adam Stines wrote: “So go have a day Muhammad an reflect on the lives laid down be them Muslim or Christian or ‘Belief system here’ so that we can have this disagreement/debate.”

Is this an artificial attempt of exiting the stage with some kind of fanfare gotcha strut? lol 

Adam Stines wrote: “I'm man enough to say I could be wrong in my view point,”

Which part?

Adam Stines wrote: “But that's just it right it's my opinion,Can you Muhammad?”

Of course. It’s all opinion. Some opinions can be supported by logic, reason, and facts, while some blow away like dry leaves in a strong wind. Which ones do you prefer to hold onto?

Adam Stines - So Muhammad? Are you a racist?

Adam Stines - Intolerant?

Muhammad Rasheed - In my experience, white people tend to mean something very different when they say "racist" compared to the normally accepted usage of the term. I'm going to need you to define it for me first so that I am clear as to what you mean.

Muhammad Rasheed - Am I intolerant about what? Changes to the US military uniform design? 

That would be a "No."

Muhammad Rasheed - I thought it was obvious really...

Adam Stines - So it's means something different?

Muhammad Rasheed - Your people tend to USE it differently.

Tell me what you mean so that we will be on the same page. That word is too pregnant with baggage as of late.

Adam Stines - Do you consider the term "your people" offensive?.Do you consider based on color,and or ethnic background alone to be more entitled or better than someone else?

Muhammad Rasheed - Adam Stines wrote: "Do you consider the term 'your people' offensive?"

No. But I suppose it would depend on context. 

Adam Stines wrote: "Do you consider based on color,and or ethnic background alone to be more entitled or better than someone else?"

No. I consider based on the fruit of righteousness that people walk in their lives. The things they do that I'm aware of that line up with the Word of God and what He wants for us as believers. The other stuff only matters when it comes to the welfare of my people and the traits of being deliberately held down, or sabotaged, by outside forces.

Adam Stines - Well worded..Yet complex in its message.Not quite one answer or another..

Adam Stines - I wonder how would that answer have sounded coming from me?.

Muhammad Rasheed - I said "No" regarding whether I consider "your people" offensive. "No" is still an answer, right?

Muhammad Rasheed - I also said "No" regarding whether I judge people based on color/ethnicity. The other stuff only matters when it becomes politically relevant for basic survival, not as a means of judging another's inherent worth as a human.

Adam Stines - Again how would that have sounded coming from me?

Muhammad Rasheed - I dunno, let it fly. Let's see what you have.

You answer it.

Muhammad Rasheed - Do you consider the term "your people" offensive? Do you judge other humans based on race or ethnic background alone to be more entitled or better than someone else?

Adam Stines - Yes to 1 No to 2

Adam Stines - The term "Your People" is seldom used In a positive sense.

Muhammad Rasheed - I would actually have to hear it used in the context of a deliberate insult to see what you mean. To me it seems neutral. More of a short cut term. Like when McCain referred to Senator Obama as "That one!" that time with a jerk of his thumb. The over-sensitive WANTED to make it into a big deal, but I didn't see it.

"Your people" is the same.

Adam Stines - But you have no idea who "My People" are?.

Muhammad Rasheed - I thought you said you were of Irish stock?

That's your people right there. Irish American ethnic group.

Adam Stines - Well I guess you do have an idea..wink emoticon

Muhammad Rasheed - smh

Muhammad Rasheed - lol Stop trying to con me, Adam.

Adam Stines - I said you were sharp!  :)

Muhammad Rasheed - hahaha

Gary Leach - During my mid-70s stint in the US Army our fatigues were undifferentiated olive green. Today they're in camo patterns. Things do change, even in the military…

Adam Stines - At the end of the day he has served so i guess time to embrace change.Hopefully for
All the right reasons.

Muhammad Rasheed - Why wouldn't it be for the right reasons, Adam? lol

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