Thursday, September 14, 2017
Who is REALLY African-American?
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - When African Americans advocate 4 their own Civil Rights, some people (even some Black ppl) assert that we are being "divisive," rather than promoting "unity. In REALITY, however, it's just politics; meaning that if U want the support of our communities (Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, et.al), the A.American community needs 2 see, & EXPERIENCE Ur support of our economic advancement. No more "freebies." THAT's Black Politics, not "divisiveness," just like with the LBGT's or any group of people.
Tanya Lamphier - Kamala Harris didn't do anything for the state of CA as AG and I dealt with her office (whilst she was AG and now that no AG has really been named in title least that I know of) while she held the title and it was (and still is) a mess. Many people I know (fellow survivors of homicide and victims advocates alike) couldn't believe the horrible things she advocated for.
What I don't get is I never hear any black people mention Condie Rice. I think she did a fabulous job as Secretary of State and is qualified for position as First Lady POTUS.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - Yes, Condie is fab. DK 'bout Kamala; I, also dealt w/her Office in Callie, & didn't leave feeling warm & fuzzy. Guess she's currently advocating 4 some bail/prison reform, which is good. We'll see. 😒
Tanya Lamphier - Prisoners get better medical attention than our military on taxpayers dime. She also advocated AGAINST the death penalty. Prison reform is not her job to advocate for as AG. Her job as AG was to defend the law and interests of the state, no more no less.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - Yeah, I know, but her sights are on the White House, so ... She's trying 2 set herself up 2 secure the African American vote --- even though, like Prez O., she's not African American. That's the game that they play, but people are wising up. 😉Not being "divisive," but people who were not raised by African Americans, in African American communities, especially, are less likely 2 fight 4 these communities. We saw this with Prez O, & hope 2 not make the same mistake with Ms. Harris.
Muhammad Rasheed - LaTonya wrote: "even though, like Prez O., she's not African American."
How is a native born US citizen, who is the descendant of an African, who self-identifies with the African-American culture, who physically passes for an African-American, not an African-American?
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - Her mother was East Indian & her father, Jamaican. Additionally, she was raised by her mother; barely spent time with the father, so basically, she was raised Indian. Because she's half Black (father), she opted to attend Howard U, & pledge AKA, prob because she intended political pursuits.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - She was not raised by people who endured Jim Crow, segregation, redlining, lynching, civil rights, & others struggles specific 2 African Americans. She identifies as Black, because she IS (like Obama), half Black, but she IS NOT African American (like Obama). ☺
Muhammad Rasheed - There are quite a few people who have made up the African-American Experience in the last several centuries, and they all did not directly experience all of the Black tropes in their lives. All combined, their experiences make up the Black Experience -- from the bourgeoisie to the striving poor, from the Black militant, to the passing Black Republican. They are all African-American, with no one more authentically Black than another based on some arbitrary, subjective measure -- especially considering the history of items like the "One-Drop Rule."
Please stop. Both Obama and Harris are African-Americans.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - They are Black, yes. But, their ancestors were not enslaved in America. THAT is what defines African Americans. The "one drop rule" has nothing to do with it. Yes, they are Black, no question, but being African American is not a "subjective opinion." Either your ancestors were Africans enslaved in America, or they were not. This is not a "subjective opinion, but rather, a very precise fact. ☺
Muhammad Rasheed - Not all African-Americans experienced slavery, and some -- for a variety of reasons -- were even slave owners themselves. Some African-Americans were wealthy business owners DURING the height of the slave era. None of these are what we immediately think of when we hear "African-American" yet they are true, real, and authentically part of the Black Experience.
The LAST thing we need is someone propagating subjective, arbitrary reasons why some are magically less African-American than some others. Those are no less than tactics of my active enemy as a Black American when #BlackUnity is what I need to be a fully free US citizen.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - No one is "debating" the Black experience. The definition of African Americans is specific. Even if "some Africans in America were not enslaved," THEIR ancestors WERE, there4, ALL are descendents. This is not a debate about "the Black experience". You are correct; the Black experience is vast. But AfricanAmericans, whether they be upper, middle or poorer classes are ALL descendents of Africans enslaved in America. Kamala, & our beloved former POTUS DO NOT fall into this category, which is largely why Obama's focus was "global," rather than advocating 4 the specific needs of African Americans.
Muhammad Rasheed - No, not all African-Americans are descendants of slaves. That is not true. Some were actually contemporaries of the original founders, and benefited from legacy wealth, or even the indentured servitude program. There are actually legacy family Black families here who never knew the shackles of chattel in their line.
Your artificially strict definition of the ever-controversial term "African-American" is a political fiction.
Muhammad Rasheed - How are you supposed to be "promoting unity," while spreading misinformation that only nitpicks along lines that the African-American didn't do among themselves during the worst eras of American history? Our unity was our strength in those days, and here you are on a soap box specifically designed to split the African-American apart along nit-picky irrelevances while making like it's an important big deal. What's the point of doing this, LaTonya, if not to spread a toxic divisiveness?
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - This is not "my definition," but rather that of those well versed, & active in Black politics. I am not just "making this up" off the top of my head. Also, of those U reference who "did not experience slavery in America," do Obama, & Kamala hail from those people? No. Also, while they might not have endured chattle slavery, I GUARANTEE they eexperiencd the other discriminations against African Americans. I guarantee it. There4, their experiences, & that of their descendents is specific, & unique. Question: what exactly is Ur issue with admitting that the African American experience is unique, & like no other? What about that truth bothers you?
Muhammad Rasheed - "Well versed, and active in Black politics" that still doesn't agree it's even a term we should be using, yet you want to artificially chisel it into granite as if there is some universal consensus. lol You're not making it up all by yourself, but you are taking a stance that pretends something about the topic that isn't real.
The point is that there are numerous micro-experiences within the greater Black Experience, and NO ONE has the authority to determine who among us is African-American or not. In a fundamentally racism society in which #BlackUnity was our greatest tool to enable us to survive through it, such talk is only the toxic divisive tactic of my active enemy.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - The reasons 4 making these dilineations are long & detailed: much longer that can be shared in a Facebook thread. If U're REALLY interested, & not just being emotional, I can refer U 2 some resources where U can begin to become educated. This is not "misinformation" that I am sharing. The goal is to educate, so that as a race, African Americans can elevate, & yes, there are specific & sound reasons 4 making these distinctions, so stop being so emotional.
Muhammad Rasheed - LaTonya wrote: "Question: what exactly is Ur issue with admitting that the African American experience is unique, & like no other?"
This is a straw man effigy, since I have no such issue. My issue is with your attempts to dissect the African-American experience into divided sections, isolate one particular chunk and uphold it as the only legitimate African-American experience of the lot. That's evil.
Please stop. Please stop spreading this divisive, partisan talking point flavored misinformation in the guise of resourced knowledge. Pretty please? Thanks.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - Also, U are the only one who is being "toxic" & angry on this thread. I am simply sharing information. The fact that it is upsetting 2 U is a clear indication that U are operation from "emotion," rather than education. Once U TRUELY become educated about these matters, then U will not be so emotional, but will simply relay facts that U have studied. If I am so toxic, then why do U bother visiting my Page? I see MANY things on FB, & I just pass right on by. Why did U stop, here, 2 comment? Why not just keep it moving, if U don't like what's being said?
Muhammad Rasheed - It always upsets me when people are promoting divisive misinformation that adds to the pool of toxic materials that make the Black American more vulnerable to their enemies, while pretending they are helping.
Should I not be upset about that? I thought my response was perfectly reasonable considering. lol
btw, I think you're just using that "emotional" line because, as an intelligent Black Woman, you probably get attacked by guys who use it on you all the time, so you call yourself doing it to me first. Well, you can quit because I'm not that guy. I love my Black Women, and celebrate her powerful mind and world-smashing force.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol I stopped here to comment because that's my duty when I see toxic nonsense being spread by those pretending it is nutritious food. It's my job as a socio-political commentator to push-back against that stuff and challenge you on it.
You can either support it and prove it is real or you can not. Telling me I'm emotional just because I challenge you on it isn't how you prove it's real, you know?
Throw Down Your Rod. Let's see what you have.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - I have no idea what U're saying Muhammad Rasheed. It's late; I'm tired; and I've said as much as I can say. If U would like referrals 2 some of my resources, I am happy 2 provide. Nothing I've said is fabricated, made up, nor intended to divide, but rather 2 educate. Personally, I hope Kamala gets wind of some of these threads; perhaps she will alter her approach. This would probably garner more support for her then she thinks. Nothing I've Posted here are lies or fabrications. It's all simply Black politics.
Muhammad Rasheed - I agree the argument itself is a part of the body of Black politics, which in itself is an aspect of the Black Experience. Here in the 'integration' era, on the other side of the time when it was common sense knowledge that we HAD to stick together in order to survive, live and even thrive as an African-American community, we now found ourselves in the illusion of "progress" where we are under the impression that toxic, divisive talk is somehow educational and empowering to us as African-Americans.
Education into what we are dealing with is the key for throwing off these new mental shackles, and I have faith that eventually this too we shall overcome.
Have a good night, LaTonya.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - I am not bothered by being "challenged," but rather these emotional accusations. Resources can be provided 4 all that I've shared, but until this final Post of Urs, U didndidn't ask 4 it. U simply proceeded 2 accuse me of being "divisive." THAT, my friend, is an emotional response. It's not Ur duty 2 do anything, except live, & laugh , & love, so I don't buy that line about why U stopped here. I think, deep down, U, like everyone else, wants 2 know the truth. No one is saying Kamala can't run 4 Office, but it will benefit us all when these Politicians begin being more truthful. ☺
Muhammad Rasheed - Let the record show that -- not only are your claims that the proudly African-American Barack Obama is somehow not an African-American based on subjective, arbitrary partisan talking point nonsense -- but at any time along the way you could've provided the proofs of your claims, and if strong, would have stopped me dead in my tracks. Instead I find you talking about it a lot though, when the proof is actually within the pudding itself.
Consequently, at this point I'm finding you all hot air & empty bluster, with no rod to actually throw, while accusing me of emotion. And here I thought you were better than that.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - Lol, U're funny. I am too tired too engage further, & like I said, there are numerous resources, since we have touched on several issues. It's late, so I am not prepared to pull out resources right now, but I will provide. I just can't right now. I have an early morning, & I am tired. To be continued? I promise 2 "show U what I've got" once I'm rested. LOL. I promise.
LaTonya Rosetta Reed - Good night.
Muhammad Rasheed - Have a good night.
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I was 100% wrong in this argument.ReplyDelete