Tuesday, September 26, 2017
Attack of the Trolls
fatkafir - Here's one for you M. Rasheed: Give me one verse in the Quran Hadith or sunnah that preaches respect and love for the kufar!
Muhammad Rasheed - ???
Who are you? Do I know you?
Muhammad Rasheed - You want me to find a verse with God instructing the believer to respect and love those who have rejected God and prefer hell?
No such verses exist. The closest thing to it was when God told the believers not to make fun of the idols of the pagans because it would only encourage them to slander the One God, and Allah didn't want to hear it.
BasimaFaysal - Of course you don't respect and love non-Muslims.
Muhammad Rasheed - I respect and love believers in the One God who are not Muslims. Allah said you don't specifically have to sign up to Islam to win paradise.
Those who reject the One God altogether -- the unrepentant hellbound -- are a different matter.
BasimaFaysal - Sure, you only love and respect people who believe the thing you believe.
Muhammad Rasheed - Is this your official attempt to get me to change my mind? lol
Christians and Jews who are sincere in their belief, and strive to please the One God have earned my love & respect. I have no beef with them.
BasimaFaysal - No. It's illegal for you to find fault in Islam or leave it. Penalty of death. Ciao.
Muhammad Rasheed - 1.) There is no fault in Al-Islam.
2.) Allah said "there is no compulsion in religion," therefore the "legalities" have nothing to do with it.
Actually, the 'apostasy laws' are hold-overs from the European colonialist period. They 100% have nothing to do with the faith itself.
BasimaFaysal - Just as I said. It's illegal for you to even acknowledge fault in it.
Muhammad Rasheed - I read what you said, that's why I dismissed it. Here ya go: Why Blasphemy Laws Are Actually Anti-Islamic
Try harder, please. Your empty words alone do not move me since I'm actually read-up on the topic.
BasimaFaysal - You're a bit of an ignoramus if you don't know Muslims wrote sharia, not Europeans.
I'll assume you aren't and that you're a liar.
Muhammad Rasheed - The formerly-colonized Muslims carried over the Euro-colonialist's rules into their sharia works. You should get out and read more. Try it.
BasimaFaysal - Muslims must be retarded to make sharia - the law of Islam- from the infidel unbeliever laws.
You lying joker.
Muhammad Rasheed - People have often built up bureaucratic institutions around the Word of God that conflict with the Word itself. I agree it's certainly a 'retarded' trait. That's why the prophets came to correct them, and realign the people back to the Word.
lol I'm not 'lying' nor am I joking. I happen to be read up on the topic. That trumps your sloppy professional trolldom. Please work harder at challenging me. Is there a Level II anti-Islam troll course you can certify in?
BasimaFaysal - Oh, what prophets came to correct the sharia after the stupid Muslims copied if from the Europeans?
Muhammad Rasheed - Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the prophet that came to realign the people back to the Word after the previous guardians molested it. He is the last. Fortunately the 'scholar' bureaucrats confine their foolishness to sharia, and it doesn't spill over into the Qur'an itself. Therefore, the believers merely have to bypass sharia and go straight to the unmolested source. You may consider that one of the Qur'an's miracles in action. Similar to the unmolested spider web story? Like that.
Muhammad Rasheed - Will that be all?
BasimaFaysal - Sure. Muslims scholars ruined Islam by basing it not on Quran or Muhammad but by copying European laws! And it's all corrupt except Quran!
I don't need to hear from you again.
Muhammad Rasheed - The Qur'an is the Word of the One God of Abraham -- the final scripture in the revealed sacred canon. It is perfect and protected.
lol You're the one that keeps reaching out to me, remember? Presumably trying to 'trip me up' using only your uniformed hateful opinions. I suggest you upgrade to the Anti-Islam Hatred Course: Level II if you hold hope of actually challenging me on this stuff.
fatkafir - Hey mr Rasheed, bearing in mind Mohammad was a complete arsehole and Allah, if he did exist, would be the same. Point is to the verses in your holy books that show peace and respect for the kufar. Prove to us that Islam is peaceful!
Muhammad Rasheed - You're not using "bearing in mind" correctly, considering I reject any and everything you believe to be true about the subject. #DoOver
So basically you're going to create a straw man effigy based on your willfully uninformed understanding of my faith, and expect me to conform to it? Such a discussion would necessitate first the toppling of your straw man, and then an explanation of what makes Islam the religion of peace.
fatkafir - If Islam were peaceful then it would instruct peace rather than destroy everything and let everyone who doesn't want to play part burn
Muhammad Rasheed - This post of yours demonstrates without doubt that you have no idea what the Qur'an actually instructs about the matter. Or perhaps you do, but you've been instructed to ignore those facts by your anti-Islam troll farm trainers.
Melody Winfield - So what's that guy do? Change his name to pretend like he was someone else?
Melody Winfield - @Muhammad... do you know anything about the Bible?
Muhammad Rasheed - Is this a "love thy enemy" related question?
Melody Winfield - No. I wanted to know if you know why there is a 400 plus year gap between the old and new testament. Been, trying to research it. They claim that God didn't have anything crucial to say during that time. Which is ridiculous. Help me out here.
Muhammad Rasheed - Who's "they?"
Muhammad Rasheed - 1.) God anointed prophets to reorient the people after they had strayed from the Straight Path. When and where this was needed varied, so it could be as soon as a generation, or centuries.
2.) It was the people's prerogative as to how they were going to record the Word of God that the prophets preached to them. Some just passed it down in song as an oral tradition, some chiseled it into stele, and others wrote it on carried scrolls, made of either papyrus or parchment. Some didn't try to keep the information for posterity at all, and only passed it on to the next generation or two as a loosely formed, and quickly forgotten, family creed.
3.) John the Baptist (peace be upon him) was a messenger of the One God, but other than the very brief account mentions of him in the New Testament and in the Qur'an, we have no detailed understanding of his entire mission. Should we? I think that's a case of "hindsight = 20/20 vision." Of all the humans who were worthy of detailed studies of their lives, it's those folk, but the people who received their message didn't always take that concept as seriously as they should have.
4.) Other people outside of the Semite nations received messengers from the One God, too, but they also didn't always consider it important to make a detailed recording of what they received, or if they did, the info did not survive the various cataclysms, such as the destructive force of European Imperialism.
These are basically the reasons why our record of the One God's revealed scripture isn't as comprehensive, detailed, and ultra thorough as it should be, in my opinion.
Melody Winfield - YOU know who THEY is!
Melody Winfield - I figured you could answer the question if no one else could. I'll read the Qur'an after I finish the bible. I still have so many questions. And yes I do think you should "love Thy enemy". But, I know for a fact that it is so much easier said than done. Love is the strongest weapon that we have against hate. But, you have to know how to use it, to implement it. I don't think humanity is there yet. I'm not sure that that level of consciousness will ever be achieved by man. Not in this life.
Muhammad Rasheed - I believe in the "love thy enemy" concept, but I recognize it was never designed as a universally applied principle per its scriptural context. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary was sent with a very specific message to a very specific people: The children of Israel. This was a people who already knew the Word of God, who had already been instructed in scripture, but their practical application of its precepts had devolved into a cold, legalistic religion devoid of the reflected mercy and compassion of that scripture's Divine Author. As is usually the case in a system in which a powerful wealthy elite rule over the common masses, it was the least powerful of society who received the brunt hateful coldness of all legalistic decisions. The lessening of mercy always flows top-down, you see. So when Jesus said to "love thy enemy," he wasn't talking to the people who were getting stoned, but to the self-righteous jackasses doing the stoning, as his admonishments were often directed towards the more powerful in society. He told them to 'turn the other cheek' when they felt a slight which came with forgiving the poor of their debts, forgiving the starving when they were forced to steal bread, forgiving those who in having a harder time in life, were more likely to violate societal offenses. It was difficult for his people to love the lower classes, because the wealthy & powerful are often aloof and hard-hearted of those they feel themselves better than, and it was to the rich among the children of Israel whom the Christ was sent to deliver his instruction.
"Love thy enemy" was never designed as a universal principle applicable to everyone, but it does have a clear application in the modern Western society. The dominant, powerful class of our day have proven scientifically incapable of feeling empathy towards groups they also hold in disdain, as undeserving of the material blessing that the rich hoard from them and treat as their enemies. To those wealthy and powerful who claim Western Christianity as their doctrine even as they wage class warfare against the poor minorities, they should know that Jesus' instruction to "love thy enemy" was directed specifically towards their ilk.
Melody Winfield - You cannot effectively oppose the enemy if you do not truly love him. Love is light. Darkness loses its power in light. Love is not just about empathy. Love is not just about how you feel about someone. It is a way of walking, establishing, taking your seat in the world. That is probably why it's so difficult to put into practice. If Jesus had acted on his feelings he would have run when they came to arrest him.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jesus told his disciples to fetch swords in anticipation of the enemy's arrival. He actually planned for his own 'love' to take on a battle-like form, before his companions fell asleep on him. Obviously the Christ's love was prepared to free the oppressed by shedding blood, no different than his anointed patriarchs had done.
Can you love someone without the ability to feel empathy?
Muhammad Rasheed - It's pretty clear that the instructions of the oppressor class are what turned the focus of the "love thy enemy" doctrine in the opposite direction in order to keep the slave enslaved, and to protect his precious hoarded wealth. It also explains why Jesus was rejected as the messiah during his lifetime by the very people waiting for him to show up.
Melody Winfield - Empathy is vital in loving someone. But, love involves waaay more than feeling empathy. When you speak of love taking on a battle like form, love does indeed involve battle. That's how I know that the enemy can be defeated with , by and out of love.That's what Jesus did, defeated the enemy.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jesus' mission was to preach the Word of his Lord. He accomplished this successfully, which was why his people got triggered. Outside of that, I cannot agree that his enemies were defeated within his lifetime.
Melody Winfield - True. As a matter of fact he conceded to his enemies. Muhammad Rasheed God did not intend for him to defeat his enemies in his lifetime. That was one of the purposes of the second coming. The purpose of his dying on the cross was to give us protection from our own enemies--ourselves. He achieved this quite effectively on the spiritual realm. Most don't try to access this benefit though even though it's available to everyone. Organized religion does not really help their members and congregation to access this benefit either. That's why the church has failed.
Melody Winfield - Oh...when I say Jesus defeated the enemy, I'm talking about the spiritual enemy-the devil.( Always gotta have the last word. Doncha Muhammad Rasheed)? LOL!! (Jes' kiddin').
Muhammad Rasheed - Jesus, along with all the countless other messengers, will return on Judgment Day to bear witness for/against those people they preached to during their lifetimes. This is the event that the "Second Coming" doctrine is based upon.
Our job as believers is to take the Word that the messengers preached, and use it as a Guide to adhere to the moral-righteous Straight Path of God. That's all. Sincerely striving to do so with patient perseverance while believing in the One who made us is all that is necessary for our salvation, and is how we strengthen our souls from the spiritual link. The benefit of Organized Religion is to codify the Word as lifestyle, to enable the believers to walk it out in an "idiot-proof" fashion. They do so through varying levels of success, with the simplest ones tending to be ones closest to the mark. The religious institutions that failed are the ones that allowed greedy bureaucrat elitists to take over and lead the people away from The Path.
Muhammad Rasheed - The adversary will be defeated on Judgment Day when it is finally tossed into hell. It has been granted respite until then. Our job as believers is to use the Word as a shield ("It is written...!") and resist the temptations it utters lest we go astray.
Melody Winfield - Ok. So, what about indigenous people who never hear the word?
Muhammad Rasheed - The One God said that ALL the peoples of the earth received a messenger to instruct them in scripture and wisdom. Some we were told their tales, most we were not told of.
Muhammad Rasheed - The best example of this truth is in the story of the Great Flood.
Melody Winfield - Ok.
Muhammad Rasheed - Note that every people on earth have a "Noah figure" in their "myths" that warned them of the cataclysm, and who were told by God to guard their knowledge, pairs of animals, food, and the few believers who heeded the warning. Noah (peace be upon him) was both a real historical figure, as well as an archetype of a world-wide group of savior messengers during the time.
Melody Winfield - You strive to walk the path primarily through the discipline of strengthing the spirit. Spreading the word is our main job but you do it by talking as well as setting example.
Melody Winfield - Yes! That Noah thing is happening about now isn't it? But, is Noah considered a profit?
Muhammad Rasheed - How can someone who built a big-ass boat during a centuries' old dry season not be considered a prophet?
Melody Winfield - Ok...You didn't have to say it like that Muhammad Rasheed! He's not the only one who builder boats in dry season centuries ago!
Melody Winfield - Uh, was he?
Muhammad Rasheed - No, but all of them didn't build boats. For example, in Turkey, their prophet built an underground system of catacombs where the saving items were stored. It exists today miraculously.
Melody Winfield - Wow!
Melody Winfield - How long ago?
Muhammad Rasheed - [ARTICLE] Gobekli Tepe: The World’s First Temple?
Melody Winfield - Ok. Reading now.
Muhammad Rasheed - Super old. The Great Flood started 12,800 yrs ago in the Younger Dryas event, so the localized events that the different prophets had to deal with could have taken place at any time thereafter.
They dealt with super floods, "nuclear" winters, and all kinds of other cataclysms that were varying aspects of that one great 1,300 yr old event. Each prophet dealt with an aspect of it.
Melody Winfield - Interesting article but, they aren't even sure what the structure is.
Melody Winfield - Ok. Reading again. Will be back a little later to respond.
Muhammad Rasheed - They aren't "sure" because it conflicts with their model of human history. They don't believe in the One God and the bible and all of that, you know? You have to analyze the raw data through your own research. Chances are they will simply not study it, and will allow the info to just disappear into the Aether of Eurocentric scientific neglect, the way they did the Nabta Playa site.