Sunday, April 19, 2015

Harvard versus the 1964 Louisiana Literacy Tests

Muhammad Rasheed - [shared link]

Harvard Students Take 1964 Literacy Test Black Voters Had To Pass Before Voting — They All Failed

Muhammad Rasheed - Let me guess: The response from the racist community was that Harvard was full of stupid liberals anyway so they weren't surprised they failed the very fair, non-racist tests.

Chris Suess - I dont think that the fact that Harvard is full of stupid liberals has anything to do with it. In this case I think that fact is irrelevant. I think it is more of an indication of how shitty modern public indoctrination is in general.

Muhammad Rasheed - I don't understand. You think our modern indoctrination is shitty, that's why we find the tests designed to keep blacks from voting to be impossible to pass?

Please explain.

Chris Suess - Let me give you an example, recently my son and I went to a place called Wild West City. It's a western re-enactment entertainment attraction in West NJ. While there, we went into the school house there and up on the chalk board were some questions that young kids then had to know.

Neither of us could fully answer any of the questions.

Modern education sucks balls. People are stupider in general today, REGARDLESS of the pigmentation of their skin.

I think they found it impossible to pass, because they have never been taught the information to begin with.

Muhammad Rasheed - These tests weren't what you think they are, Chris. They were specifically created and designed to keep the jim crow era blacks out of the voting booths. This wasn't a matter of "education" but discrimination of the worst type.

Chris Suess - dude, I'm not saying that their original purpose was good.

Muhammad Rasheed - It was the only purpose for it.

Muhammad Rasheed - The KKK was formed because the former slave was educating him/herself and entering high offices in politics. The fear was that they would become so powerful that the whites would receive some kind of "payback" for it if they found themselves ruled by them. The KKK was created to "save the white race" as Griffin put it.

Muhammad Rasheed - These test laws were part of that old fear. Once blacks recovered their right to vote, their rivals still kept trying to hold them back. That's what these tests were.

Muhammad Rasheed - Obama's two landslide victories rekindled that same fear once again. That's why the "voter I.D." cards, the voter fraud controversy, and once again talk of more voting tests started all over again.

Chris Suess - I have never heard of any talk of re-establishing voting tests.

Voter ID is used in pretty much all countries. It's kind of how you prevent cheating. Proving who you are to vote should not be an issue except to those that plan on cheating the system.

Your use of landslide is laughable.

Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Suess wrote: "Voter ID is used in pretty much all countries. It's kind of how you prevent cheating."

Yes, that's the kind of rhetoric they invented when they found themselves on the losing end, with their worldview smashed.

Chris Suess wrote: "Your use of landslide is laughable."

1.) Obama would go on to win a decisive victory over McCain, winning both the popular vote and the electoral college, with 365 electoral votes to McCain's 173; he received the largest percentage of the popular vote for a Democrat since Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

2.) Obama would go on to defeat Romney, winning both the popular vote and the electoral college, with 332 electoral votes to Romney's 206. He became the eleventh President and third Democrat to win a majority of the popular vote more than once.

Diane J. Thalheimer - 1964, Lousiana, not surprising. I was six. My question is, are they still administering this test? And if not,what year were they forced to stop administering this test?

Muhammad Rasheed - No, they were just talking about some voting tests in some old articles.

Chris Suess - yeah it's kind of like the rhetoric that you hear about how getting an ID is too much of a burden for some people.

I will concede that the states that Dear Leader won were the ones with big leftist populations that have a lot of electoral votes.

Chris Suess - but those in favor of Voter ID laws cross party lines and are in a higher percentage than those that Dear Leader was voted in by...

Diane J. Thalheimer - the question really was rhetorical, although I do wonder how many years they did that. Racism exists every where one goes. This could easily be misconstrued as being done today and that type of test has nothing to do with voter id laws but bigotry. Rather like people being taught that the 3/5ths clause in the constitution proves that the founding america was pro slavery.

Muhammad Rasheed - Chris Suess wrote: "but those in favor of Voter ID laws cross party lines and are in a higher percentage than those that Dear Leader was voted in by..."

Based on what? If the states with huge "leftist populations" are the only ones he won, then how would "leftists" gain by allowing their political rivals to set up measures to control who gets to vote? The timing of these new voting control measures is certainly not insignificant in the wake of the two landslide victories of Obama.

Chris Suess - did you read the part that you copied about those in favor crossing party lines?

Muhammad Rasheed - Did you see the part where I asked "based on what?"

Muhammad Rasheed - lol Okay, Chris.

I have to go. I have work to do. See ya around.

Diane J. Thalheimer - It is important to remember the racism of the past, to study it and make sure, together, that it does not occur again. Instead of saying you people, it has to be we the people that fight the war of racism. Unlike small pox, racism will never be eradicated, ever, but it can be minimized and it is minimized by working together as Americans not thinking of each other as you people and those people. I happen to be for voter id. I am not sure who said it was to keep the black person submissive, personally, I would be more worried about the programs started under Johnson's "great society" those programs have negatively affected all Americans but particularly black Americans.
I have been a nurse for 35 years and have seen all sorts of behavior, fraud crosses all ethnic lines not just black people I believe it a false argument to say that voter id is to keep black people submissive.
This was just posted on the Frederick Douglass site: Confederate slavery brutalized one race on cotton plantations...while "Progressive Communism" inclusively, and equally, enslaves everyone to servitude to the state.
I suggest we join together to preserve our liberties and racism will be kept at bay.

Muhammad Rasheed - It's important to remember that whenever the African-American has achieved any type of milestone victory, members of that other group always took it as a threat of some kind, and attacked that community from a place of never-explained bitterness and resentment. This has happened whether we were working with you all or not, and the kind-hearted among you were not able to help.

Muhammad Rasheed - The subject of "voter IDs" only came up after Obama's victories, and never before that. The timing is not insignificant. Despite the rhetoric around it, it is merely more of the same ole, same ole.

Diane J. Thalheimer - well JFK and his darling brother had a bit to do with not only voter fraud, but voter intimidation and many before and after most likely. I think voter ID could protect people also. I have voted since I was 18 and have always had to prove who I was. back then you originally signed your name and they compared your signature, but ID had to be on your person as a back up Today I live in a town of 500 or less, one of the volunteers lives across from me and tells them who I am while I am still in the parking lot, guess that is a different form of voter id.
I was raised to be color blind, that does not mean I am a fool. My anti racism stance, against all races is not kind hearted, but based under the realization that anyone can be discriminated against, that was a horrifying day, again as a teen ager when I discovered that part of my own family would serve me up on a platter like John the Baptist head all because my maternal grandmother was Jewish. That was the day that I took my Mother's teachings one step further and gave my solemn vow to God that I would not allow racism in my prescence. My stance is quiet as I am no MLK or Ghandi, it has gotten me in hot water a few times. The racism that I am helpless against is black people against me all because I am white, and usually it is when I am working, I ignore the people on the street. There is an age difference in behavior. Black people my age who decide to hate me are usually just surly but I truly worry about the young black people who think it okay to be vile to a person because of their race. I have had to get black nurses to care for them because of their behavior. Because atrocities were committed by whites against blacks, is more reason to not repeat that behavior.
Besides studying history so as to not repeat it, like minded people need to stick together and work together to educate and prevent repetition and new hate crimes, stop talking about "you people" when something bad happens but think of each other as Americans who are in this together and to solve discrimination together, it is not a black problem or a white problem but an American problem. Before I die, I would like to see the America of my dreams, to be able to say as one people, this is the problem we had and this is how we solved it.

Muhammad Rasheed - Diane, I don't think it is smart to direct all the "need for change in attitude" towards the traditional disenfranchised victims of historical racism. The African-American is the one who has endured race-based chattel slavery, jim crow, and policies designed to control that community's economic growth. Along the way, the response from the other side has been "Rush Limbaugh." So when the disenfranchised group feels bitterness and resentment from historical ill treatment, I find it offensive when your point seems to be that the African-American needs to change their attitude as the key to the whole thing turning around.

Of course, it's possible I've badly misinterpreted what you were actually trying to say, but that's usually how you come across with these speeches. "If only black people would stop complaining and change their attitude, racism will go away." But my people are not the ones who've been walking around like they have a right to oppress people though. The fact that successful economically black communities of the past were completely destroyed by jealous and resentful white people who were never held accountable for the crimes because the dominant mainstream society somehow understood that resentment and empathized with it over the deaths of the blacks, is the true key to the problem.

The issue is not with ME.

Muhammad Rasheed - Why wasn't there talk of "voter IDs" in the few years BEFORE Obama won the first election? Why did it only become a GOP talking point immediately AFTER they soundly and definitively lost the White House when their political rivals decided to truly flex their voting might? The voter ID concept suddenly became a major talking point in this new era, not because of "fairness," but because of fear.

Diane J. Thalheimer - I think you misunderstood me, I said we have to do it together. It is the only way to make change, not by one side standing there saying you have to do this, this and this. One can't stand aloof with arms crossed saying you are doing it wrong. We have a shared history, we have to come to that understanding, stop being an us and them and become a "we". There is absolutely no race in the world that has not practiced opression in some form or other, there is no perfect race. America will never be what she is promised to be unless we work together. And yes, part of the learning is that the black people who chose to hate all white people need to change their thought patterns too. Are you willing to stop distrusting white people just because they're white and work with me to change the society of America? I happen to believe that there are enough Americans of all races to make this change, but only if we join ranks and work on it together.

Diane J. Thalheimer - as far as voter id, I do not know, ever since I began to vote at 18, yearly I have received a yellow card asking me if I still lived there and if not what to do, maybe that was more about not voting in more than one district than that you were who you say you are, but I have aways seen signs saying you needed proof of identity.

Muhammad Rasheed - Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "I think you misunderstood me, I said we have to do it together.”

I understood you fine, Diane. I also remember that when the KKK was formed, when Reconstruction was repealed, when black towns were massacred and razed to the ground, and in the post-Civil Rights Act era, when the short line of progress we had achieved was completely derailed and sabotaged, the kind-hearted among you were nowhere to be found.

The facts of history reveal that no matter what you may say, we never stopped being on our own when the very worst happens.

Muhammad Rasheed - Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "as far as voter id, I do not know, ever since I began to vote at 18, yearly I have received a yellow card..."

I don't think you're talking about the same thing as what they are talking about. If the GOP talking heads were actually talking about that same yellow card that we all have been using for decades, then why would they be bringing it up now as something that needs to be newly imposed on their political rivals' voting base?

Diane J. Thalheimer - So, you chose to punish all white people for crimes they did not commit? I know of these things too, but that does not make me culpable for things I have not done. From your statement it appears to me you do not want a united America, but keep up a false wall for retribution of past deeds and possible new? There are evil people everywhere, if good people do not unite against them then all will be lost. What purpose does it serve to keep up the hate and suspicion? I side with Frederick Douglass and Martin Luther King.

Muhammad Rasheed - Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "So, you chose to punish all white people for crimes they did not commit?"

Punish them by doing what? Where did I say I wanted to punish someone? If anything I am distrustful of that kind of "Let's just all hold hands Kumbaya" talk. "Punish" is what you all say when you betray your secret fear of a long-coming payback. That's you projecting your mess on me, Diane.

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "I know of these things too, but that does not make me culpable for things I have not done."

And here I thought you would put yourself in the role of the "kind-hearted." Curious.

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "From your statement it appears to me..."

You really should just ask.

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: " do not want a united America..."

I do. But I am offended that you somehow think the onus is on us to fix the race problem, when the other side has all the power and resource. Are you really saying that if only we were nicer to you racism would be over?

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "...but keep up a false wall for retribution of past deeds and possible new?"

What makes you think the wall is false?

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "There are evil people everywhere, if good people do not unite against them then all will be lost."

I know, I remember. We've gotten the shit end of that stick several times over the last half millennium.

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "What purpose does it serve to keep up the hate and suspicion?"

Because throw me in chains once, shame on you, etc.

Diane J. Thalheimer wrote: "I side with Frederick Douglass and Martin Luther King."

Do you?

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