Daniel Stone - I am looking at revelation very closely, actually, and I am of the belief that the book is indeed about how we govern our rational and logic. Revelation is an outline of the logical end-point of ego-centric logic. We will build distractions for ourselves to the point where we have no "sense" of selflessness or respect for natural law outside of controlling it or disregarding it as inconvenient. There are groups out there that revel in luciferian doctrine, that exalts the self above all things. Black magic and such aren't literally magic but the use of knowledge of human nature to manipulate and control clandestinely.
when it talks about things being "as in the days of noah" we are beginning to fit the bill.
I see things as being heavily influenced by theatricality and that theatricality has been a much more important part of philosophy in ancient times than it is today. Many cults and secret societies still think so today. How can you sway a large group of people to, not an absolute understanding, but rather a general agreement of sentiment without theatricality? This is the basis of propaganda.
Muhammad Rasheed - You assume that all propaganda is negative?
Daniel Stone - not at all
like all tools, it is benign by itself
Muhammad Rasheed - Theatrics is an effective tool to get across an important point.
Daniel Stone - and actually, I think I may be committing sin by "showing how it's done" essentially... the word may lose it's effectiveness or meaning if explained
Muhammad Rasheed - Who would appreciate that fact better than such as we? lol
Daniel Stone - well yeah... magicians were artists. magic is art. essentially. the use of words and symbols to effect people
so yeah.. this is a subject close to me
I'm not trying to explain God is such a way as to de emphasize him at all... just trying to see the truth in it... and well, that goes against the very concept of "faith" doesn't it?
Muhammad Rasheed - No. Going against the concept of faith is to dismiss God and the unseen out of hand.
Earnestly seeking truth can only lead directly to Him.
Daniel Stone - ok, well that's what I hope I am doing
yeah I think there is underlying truth in the bible, but the stories and literal interpretations turn people off outright, leaving people to scoff without ever taking a more serious look into the message
my feeling is if I can present it in such a way that is at least interesting and engaging while keeping the meaning intact, then people will start to listen
the label of the bible has been poisoned, but we all know that labels don't matter if the substance is still there, right?
Muhammad Rasheed - Yes.
Daniel Stone - I think this concept usually finds itself buried under the usual arguments.
Muhammad Rasheed - I think your two items: "...only follow rules you agree with, and remember to do things that make youhappy..." are poisonous to society, and a big reason as to why people tend to reject the message of scripture out of hand.
"Do things that make you happy" sounds good on paper, but some people get happy flushing babies down toilets.
Daniel Stone - well, let me use an exaggerated hypothetical of my own, if homeland security imposed marshall law and stated that all muslims should be rounded up and sent to camps to ensure the safety of the country, would you?
Muhammad Rasheed - I consider "Homeland Security" to be a tool of an out of control and tyrannical top-down government that needs to be severely checked, so no I would not.
Daniel Stone - hence, you not following a rule you don't agree with...
we can debate the intricacies and hypocrisies of ideologies and religions invented by men to dominate over other men but true religion lies beyond a book.
Muhammad Rasheed - What makes it a "rule?" Define "rule."
Who gets to determine what makes it "true" or not, and by what standard do we dismiss the Book?
Daniel Stone - in the oldest christian teachings, and not in the historical texts that were whitewashed and made sterile by western historians, it is said that you look for God in your own life, as he speaks to you directly and without a 3rd party interpretation.
without Pharisee
Muhammad Rasheed - I think that precisely the type of attitude that leads to the death of our civilizations.
Daniel Stone - our civilization has survived every human thought yet
and you still advocate to limit it and subjugate it to a narrow spectrum
that spectrum useful only to masters to rule over slaves
Muhammad Rasheed - Our civilization is only a handful of centuries old, Daniel.
Daniel Stone - our civilization is thousands of years old and probably older
but knowing that isn't useful
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "and you still advocate to limit it and subjugate it to a narrow spectrum"
I advocate protecting a free society in which the government's duty is to protect the system of laws that enable us to live free within our rights.
That's the best way to live.
Daniel Stone - just laws and just rights. correct?
and when they stop being just?
what happens then?
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "our civilization is thousands of years old and probably older"
And what civilization would that be? Certainly you're not referring to Western civilization.
Daniel Stone - human civilization is one civilization
we use borders and flags to label and categorize it, but that separation is meant to keep us apart and without understanding of our species as a whole
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "human civilization is one civilization"
No. Humans experience civilizations... plural... that are birthed, live and die... within the cycle of ages you mentioned earlier. The concept of "one human civilization" is a fiction.
Daniel Stone - 51 days after jesus died, the word was corrupted. several years later the Roman empiremagically converts to a Christian Empire.
When the state of Rome fell, it survives as an Religious empire...
city states evolved into feifdoms
feifdoms evolved into kigndoms, then countries
now our governments are making the switch over to corporate hegemonies
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "we use borders and flags to label and categorize it, but that separation is meant to keep us apart and without understanding of our species as a whole"
People are different, and are moved by various motivations to do the things they do, and think the things they think. Recognizing that through methodical study is how we will learn the human species... not by ignoring our innate differences or pretending they don't exist.
Daniel Stone - how did you ever interpret my advocacy to eliminate the labels that separate our countries into washing away our individuality?
you DO realize we, and our varied cultures, existed long before we labeled ourselves?
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "51 days after jesus died..."
These weren't evolutions you are describing, these were deaths... periods of broken, savage struggle... and then new births.
Daniel Stone - no, I'm describing the strategy by which social elites have kept is in a flim flam for centuries
by stealing the word
and using it as their own
rome never fell
you see it happen all the time in popular culture, right? Something that is formed on a grass roots level sweeps through the populace, changing hearts and minds
then it's coopted by economic powers and used to their own advantage
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "how did you ever interpret my advocacy to eliminate the labels that separate our countries into washing away our individuality? how did you ever interpret my advocacy to eliminate the labels that separate our countries into washing away our individuality? you DO realize we, and our varied cultures, existed long before we labelled ourselves?"
It's related to the fact that we are a war faring and contentious species by our nature. Remove the artificial borders, and we'll naturally replace them, and fight each other anew. We are one species, but within that species we are made up of differing groups, with differing points of view that we do not hesitate to attack each other over.
Daniel Stone - this is why jesus advocated self study and to not rely so heavily on texts and dogma
so you really feel that humans are by nature, brutish, warring people?
do you have that in your heart?
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "no, I'm describing the strategy by which social elites have kept is in a flim flam for centuries"
But that's exactly the concept that I'm advocating we join together to fight and guard ourselves against. The natural enemy of human civilization.
Daniel Stone - are you TRULY saying that you think we meant to be punished, simply for existing?
and you don't see the necessity in ensuring the strongest genes survive, as tested by conflict?
that the focus on individual life and death is a small matter when faced with the survival and health of the species as a whole?
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "this is why jesus advocated self study and to not rely so heavily on texts and dogma"
1.) Where did he say that?
2.) "self study" into what exactly?
Daniel wrote: "so you really feel that humans are by nature, brutish, warring people?"
lol Do you doubt? Have we ever NOT had police/military/weapons/crime?
Daniel wrote: "do you have that in your heart?"
No, I have it in my head.
Daniel Stone - that.... genetic degeneration LEADS to abhorrent behavior
you basically see the symptoms of our corrupted system as the reason we NEED it.
the reality is that all of those things are caused by it
not the other way around
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "are you TRULY saying that you think we meant to be punished, simply for existing?"
That sounds like you accidently posted a line meant for someone else. Where did I say that? It would help me track your thoughts if you posted my quote that you are specifically addressing. You 100% lost me here.
Daniel Stone - the wars of long ago were not the same as what you see in movies and television
only a fractions of people invovled ever died in tribal wars
wars were more like chest beating contests
maybe a few injuries here and there
but not slaughters
however, you've been trained to think that is how it was
when you see in your own daily life
how, as we've become "more civilized" we are more uncaring and brutish than ever in history
when gangs fought with fists and rocks
and they now shoot each other
and kill more efficiently than ever
that, in vietnam, our defense department noted that as few as 5% of our own soldiers ever shot AT the enemy. most soldiers aimed above the enemie's head
because they didnt WANT to kill
our soldiers had no reason for it
you're really goiung to sit here at tell me that some MOVIE VERSION OF REALITY holds more water than what you witness with your own eyes?
do you really personally know any murderers
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "and you don't see the necessity in ensuring the strongest genes survive, as tested by conflict?"
I think what we need to ensure are:
1.) protection of our rights & freedoms as individuals
2.) protection, encouraging, and archiving of human knowledge and developed
skill
3.) protecting the innocent and the rights of citizens from the dedicated
criminal element
4.) punishing the criminal
Daniel wrote: "that the focus on individual life and death is a small matter when faced with the survival and health of the species as a whole?"
You are a communist.
The protection of the individual IS survival of the species as a whole.
Daniel Stone - or is that just what you see on the news?
I'm not a communist
you don't even seem to know what that means
communism, capitalism, socialism are all mechanisms of control through economics
they all have the same result
which is to prop up economic power over the population
while making the population feel as if they matter, depending on their decided flavor
a population that leans left and demands the state control every aspect of their lives? communism will do it.
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "the wars of long ago were not the same as what you see in movies and television, only a fractions of people invovled ever died in tribal wars, wars were more like chest beating contests, maybe a few injuries here and there, but not slaughters, however, you've been trained to think that is how it was"
List for me the sources you are using for this info so I can check it out, please.
Daniel Stone - a population that wants to feel like they can do what they want? Capitalism will do it
an intelligent population that sees that things go both ways? Socialism
but they all have the same result of keeping the population busy, and keepign the rich, rich
communism, as it has always been applied everywhere int he world throughout history
somehow, magically, mysteriously, preserves an upper class
how'd that happen?
theoretically, there should be no elites in a communist society, yet there they are...
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "when you see in your own daily life how, as we've become "more civilized" we are more uncaring and brutish than ever in history when gangs fought with fists and rocks and they now shoot each other and kill more efficiently than ever"
I disagree. It isn't the weapon that determines the level of "uncaring brutishness" in the attacker, but the mindset behind the attack. I can think the exact same way about you holding a rock as I can holding a repeating grenade launcher.
Daniel Stone - that's empirically untrue
there have been studies on it
and in fact, our own defense department RELIES on technology, increasing our ability to dissassociate while we kill so that we can kill more efficiently
that is why we're so heavily invested in drone technology
the ability to turn killing into a passive videogame like system allows us to enforce hegemony while mitigating the guilt of the masses and direct subordinates
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "that.... genetic degeneration LEADS to abhorrent behavior you basically see the symptoms of our corrupted system as the reason we NEED it. the reality is that all of those things are caused by it not the other way around"
That's not reality, Daniel. That's that corrupt, eugenic, Marxist-communist leaning thinking of the Godless.
Daniel Stone - NO. EUGENICS is a corrupted version of what NATURE already does
except eugenics, a theory concocted by Darwin, based on real science, was coopted by Leonard Huxley (alduous Huxley's father, writer of Brave New World).
Leonard Huxley used this theory as propaganda to essentially convince people that the ruling class was genetically superior
this twisted version of science was then adopted by racial purists as their mantra
But the idea of natural selection is a reality
but only NATURE dictates it
that means, our animal instincts, our aiblity to survive harsh environments, hunt, and mate
all the icky stuff civilization downplays and tries to destroy
and I hope you realize tyhat when I say nature I mean God
because you're talking to me with ideas concocted by people who are far far from Godly
and when scripture even says that this world is ruled by the ENEMY
already ruled by the enemy
ALREADY RULED BY THEM
you're gonna preach at me with THEIR message and ideas?
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "that, in vietnam, our defense department noted that as few as 5% of our own soldiers ever shot AT the enemy. most soldiers aimed above the enemie's head because they didnt WANT to kill our soldiers had no reason for it"
That war was infamous for being a failure of government propaganda. Remember it was going on at a time when it spilled over into the socially turbulent 1960s. The people didn't want to be over there anyway because they knew it was an unjust war that had nothing to do with us.
Daniel wrote: "you're really goiung to sit here at tell me that some MOVIE VERSION OF REALITY holds more water than what you witness with your own eyes?"
You lost me again. I think your argument would be more effective if you confined it to fleshing out your position, and involved a whole lot less pseudo-psychoanalysis into what you think about me. We'll probably cover more ground towards understanding each other.
Daniel wrote: "do you really personally know any murderers"
As someone who lived in Detroit, MI during the crack wars of the '80s-early '90s, and worked as a correctional officer? That would be a "Yes." It's relevance to your point is still a mystery. We're arguing philosophy on general terms. I think it would be more fruitful to confine it there.
Daniel Stone - so you know people who were mentally and emotionally scarred
whose abhorrent behavior was a result of their status in a system designed to kill them
you're not talking about well adjusted, normal humans..
you're talking about abused people
as a RESULT of this civilization
and then you say the this same system is what will save us from that?
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "I'm not a communist you don't even seem to know what that means"
The communist is an advocate for a state run system that upholds the collective over the individual... a concept you seem to 100% support based on your now well-documented opinions.
What does it mean to you?
Daniel Stone - only because you've been told that it is so
you're parroting the words of old white men, you realize that, right?
assuming I even support as state
the state is US
when we choose not to have one, then there is no state
when you say the state exists above us, then you're a slave to ideas
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "communism, capitalism, socialism are all mechanisms of control through economics they all have the same result"
They'll all have the same result if the citizens are lazy and do not check their governments, sure.
Daniel Stone - and what did I say in the comments section before ANY of this?
that the nature of things is a CYCLE
the ebb and flow between ORDER and CHAOS
order, creates peace
but only for a time
then it corrupts and becomes despotism
the kind you're so paranoid about and think is only exclusive to communism for some reason
all hierarchies, and orders devolve into chaos
but this is NECESSARY
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "a population that wants to feel like they can do what they want? Capitalism will do it; an intelligent population that sees that things go both ways? Socialism"
An intelligent population is one that runs a capitalist system, protects & maintains their rights & freedoms, and uses some principles of socialism as needed to support the system.
Daniel Stone - like leaves falling off a tree to create fertile soil for the next season
when humans pick up the pieces and begin to created order again
they choose what that order will look like
whether it's capitalism, communism, or socialism
same result
eventual corruption and another fall
so, I will politely ignore you calling me a communist, when I personally think all systems are fatally flawed
because that is NATURE
I have no control over humanity as a whole
nor do I think anyone should have
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "communism, as it has always been applied everywhere in the world throughout history somehow, magically, mysteriously, preserves an upper class how'd that happen? theoretically, there should be no elites in a communist society, yet there they are..."
The people delegate all their power and control to the all-powerful state and the elite that run it in a communist system. A basic understanding of it contains no mystery.
Daniel Stone - but I understand that we DO operate as a super organism
we follow trends and beliefs blindly
because that's the super organism at work
and I understand that trying to implement systems to control the super organism, humanity as a whole
will always fail
and actually hurt us
collectively
because it's not natural
but we do it anyway
because that's the only way to stay strong
so, maybe I'm a bit confusing. But I'm trying to look at the entire vehicle, and you're only paying attention to the steering wheel
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "that's empirically untrue there have been studies on it and in fact, our own defense department RELIES on technology, increasing our ability to dissassociate while we kill so that we can kill more efficiently that is why we're so heavily invested in drone technology the ability to turn killing into a passive videogame like system allows us to enforce hegemony while mitigating the guilt of the masses and direct subordinates"
lol It's actually empirically VERY true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SgM_acEsqw
Daniel Stone - MRasheed wrote:"The people delegate all their power and control to the all-powerful state and the elite that run it in a communist system. A basic understanding of it contains no mystery."
dude do you seriously not see how this still applies to capitalism AND socialism?
we don't even live in a democracy. so long as an electorate exists, we're still a republic and DELEGATE our power and control to a state-ctonrolled group to decide FOR us.
allt hey did was cahnge up the way it's organized and how it was lablelled
but the function is exactly the same
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "and I hope you realize tyhat when I say nature I mean God"
The Creator is separate from His creation, so I have no logical reason to "realize" that. lol Again, I think it best for you to confine your point to fleshing out your own argument without using me as a test subject for stuff. That's the part that can get confusing and derail from the point you are trying to make. Explain your side based on your understanding, I'll explain my side based on my understanding, and then we can come to the middle in an attempt to see each others' basic point. You continuously mixing the two based on false assumptions about me will just mess it up.
Daniel wrote: "because you're talking to me with ideas concocted by people who are far, far from Godly"
I'm talking to you from a place of insight birthed from my own self-study into topics of interest to me, but thank you for subscribing the worst to me based on your own severely restricted dogma. This goes far in maintaining a respectful attitude towards you. :)
Daniel wrote: "and when scripture even says that this world is ruled by the ENEMY already ruled by the enemy ALREADY RULED BY THEM you're gonna preach at me with THEIR message and ideas?"
Control your caps lock, please. You are having a discussion with someone who doesn't believe the biblical scripture is the revealed Word of God, but needed to be corrected by a later scripture that came after Jesus. A scripture that sets to rights those areas whereby the previous guardians allowed the bible to go astray. This item you posted is not a truth, but an opinion you formed based on your understanding of that line in the previous scripture. It's worthy of breaking down,analyzing, and comparing with the way the world is, was, and will be, but "preaching at you" in a discussion in which we are both sharing our opinions with each other is off the mark.
Daniel wrote: "so you know people who were mentally and emotionally scarred whose abhorrent behavior was a result of their status in a system designed to kill them"
I know people who, when presented with everyday life choices that we all are faced with, made the wrong choice, and either killed, died, or went to prison for those choices.
Daniel Stone - and they represent humanity as a whole to you?
or are your perceptions skewed by being so close to so many, for so long?
this happens with cops a lot and explains a lot of their violent tendencies. They deal with violent people who lash out on a constant basis, so they begin to see everyone that way
this doesn't make it true
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "you're not talking about well adjusted normal humans.."
Of course I am.
Daniel wrote: "you're talking about abused people"
I'm talking about an average citizen of the USA struggling through life just like everyone else, faced with choices of daily life just like everyone else.
Daniel wrote: "as a RESULT of this civilization"
As a result of life.
Daniel wrote: "and then you say the this same system is what will save us from that?"
Pooling together our resources and mental acumen creates human societies that provide benefits far superior than working on our own frontier style. This is obvious to me.
Daniel Stone - pooling together our resources and mental acumen does indead create great societies... sometimes
and then time passes
and it stops being so great
then it falls apart
you seem to think that this is somehow a permanent solution
when I keep pointing out that the dishes need to be washed pretty much every century at least
and that my point of view is that the cycle IS the system
even the chaotic part
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "only because you've been told that it is so"
lol Who told you it is not?
Daniel wrote: "you're parroting the words of old white men, you realize that, right?"
You're giving me more things to realize? I notice that I have not yet come across the list of reference works from your own study, since this marks the second time you've decided to insult my own study materials. Tell me: In your demonstrated very pro-Marxism/Communist/Naturalism stance, which white men are YOU parroting, Daniel?
Daniel wrote: "assuming I even support as state the state is US when we choose not to have one, then there is no state when you say the state exists above us, then you're a slave to ideas"
Define being "a slave to ideas," please, so I can be sure of the meaning of this insult and can prepare a proper response.
Daniel Stone - it's not an insult. ideology is a form of control
essentially, every time you assume there is a permanent solution to a system that is, by nature, ever-changing, you stop being conscious to the changes around you
this is useful for people and organizations that use ideology to get predicable, routine actions out of the population
they know what you'll you do and how you'll react to things, based on the ideology you've adopted
this is put into action each day by advertisers and marketing departments that pay attention to this kind of stuff
it's not a perfect science
but it makes the job of babysitting large populations much easier
it is, in fact, necessary to keep a large population uneducated so they are more easily influenced by ideology
a society of well educated people form differing opinions
and prefer to have self crafted or customized commodities rather than mass produced ones
"hipsters"
it's not easy to make money off of that
this is why I say it's part of the slave mentality
it's part of why you seem quick to call me a communist when communism isn't even a relevant threat to anyone anywhere
but you've been conditioned to fear and despise it
I don't even believe or support it
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "and what did I say in the comments section before ANY of this? that the nature of things is a CYCLE the ebb and flow between ORDER and CHAOS order, creates peace but only for a time then it corrupts and becomes despotism"
Our civilizations become corrupt when we allow them to, and fail to guard against those items that are traditional enemies in our societies that sabotage our efforts. I'm an advocate for analyzing these items, and working to create effective measures to protect against them, and then become serious about protecting and maintaining (and tweaking & perfecting) these measures.
Daniel wrote: "the kind you're so paranoid about and think is only exclusive to communism for some reason"
You should read more of my Notes. Your ability to read a few paragraphs someone wrote and make great leaping assumptions without ever asking them to clarify if that is indeed what they actually meant is a demonstrated character flaw of yours. I have no way of knowing if you do it to everyone you argue with or just me.
Daniel wrote: "all hierarchies, and orders devolve into chaos but this is NECESSARY"
It's inevitable if we refuse to guard against the destruction of our civilizations.
Daniel Stone - actually it's the "guard against the destruction" that leads to despotism
because what YOU think is destructive
and what the Tea Party thinks is destructive
and what the kkk thinks is desctructive
are all different things
and the result is more laws
and more laws eventually means the stripping away of personal freedoms
resulting in exactly what you feared
and then, revolution
things fall apart
chaos
etc
bad times
then people get sicka dn tired of killing
and just wanna be left alone
so they organize and create a new hierarchy
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "like leaves falling off a tree to create fertile soil for the next season when humans pick up the pieces and begin to created order again they choose what that order will look like whether it's capitalism, communism, or socialism same result eventual corruption and another fall so, I will politely ignore you calling me a communist, when I personally think all systems are fatally flawed"
All systems are flawed inherently because the humans that created them are. Sure. But some are less flawed than others and are equally inherently worthy of perfecting for the common good. Others are inherently worth leaving in the garbage pile of the past, and used only as lesson of what not to do (like your precious communism).
Daniel Stone - there is no perfection in stasis
I'm trying to tell you that we are already IN the perfect system
it just simply doesn't care about your own personal well being
because it's merely concerned with a continuation of the species as a whole
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "because that is NATURE I have no control over humanity as a whole nor do I think anyone should have"
That's why it's important to maintain and protect the laws that enable a free society to function in which the individual enjoys human/civil rights and freedoms.
Daniel Stone - the irony being that people's struggles to make it perfect are actualiy the engine that drive the creation/destruction cycle
well, it's 1:30 am
I gotta go.
this was a good talk
no disrespect was meant
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "but I understand that we DO operate as a super organism we follow trends and beliefs blindly because that's the super organism at work and I understand that trying to implement systems to control the super organism, humanity as a whole will always fail and actually hurt us collectively because it's not natural but we do it anyway because that's the only way to stay strong so, maybe I'm a bit confusing. But I'm trying to look at the entire vehicle, and you're only paying attention to the steering wheel"
1.) We are One Species, and as such we do behave the same in certain predictable ways, no matter where you find us. Our brains work the same.
2.) Inside of that we have certain needs that do naturally separate us into groups... learned behaviors that benefit us locally.
3.) When these different groups, with their cultural differences, needs, and wants come together, a one-size-fits-all approach to governing will not work and is doomed to fail if it is TOO detailed and functions like a micromanagement system, in which a narrow-minded elite will tell the people what they ought to be doing.
4.) A looser set of governing laws, primarily confined to maintaining a system of laws that protect individual freedoms and rights from the dedicated criminal element, is primarily all that is needed. This will enable each individual group to function the way they want to within their own comforts and all will be free.
Daniel Stone - that is true
but....
you still have to resolve the problem of generational momentum
and the natural tendency for the young to challenge the old beliefs no matter what they happen to be
good night
Muhammad Rasheed - Daniel wrote: "so, maybe I'm a bit confusing. But I'm trying to look at the entire vehicle, and you're only paying attention to the steering wheel"
lol
A better analogy is that we are both trying to figure out how to get a pile of 10,000 Styrofoam packing peanuts into the next room. You are scooping them up willy-nilly with your arms, content that the majority of them did make it, while many fall and are crushed underneath your feet. I took the time to make sure each was safe in a 10,000 compartment ice tray (with a carefully fastening lid) so that they all would make it, thus ensuring the maximum survival of the lot that you only pretended to care for, Commie. :P
lol
Daniel wrote: " dude do you seriously not see how this still applies to capitalism AND socialism?"
The USA took on communistic tendencies when the people got lazy and allowed their elected leadership to function like Red Commie Elitists. This really began in the early 20th century after the Federal Reserve Act was passed and the gov took on a more elitist form under the new control of the Money Trust, who immediately plunged us into war. Since then we've become quite communistic, and growing more and more so with every new fake crisis. A HUGE government is designed to precisely make the average citizen weary, and delegate all control and force to the leadership. In order for the USA to survive, this MUST be reversed, and reversed soon.
Daniel wrote: "and they represent humanity as a whole to you?"
Of course, outside of children and the mentally handicap. Humans operate out of Free Will, and everyday get to choose the right way or the other way. All of us.
Daniel wrote: "or are your perceptions skewed by being so close to so many, for so long?"
lol You have no idea how long I was in those areas, nor even know where I am now. Once again I will ask that you confine your point to fleshing out your own argument based on its own merits, and refrain from trying to pull me into them until you've taken the time to read what I actually think. My
stated perceptions are based on my self-study into the Word of God.
Daniel wrote: "this happens with cops a lot and explains a lot of their violent tendencies. They deal with violent people who lash out on a constant basis, so they begin to see everyone that way"
smh
*sighhhhhhh...* lol
Daniel wrote: "this doesn't make it true"
Are you implying somehow that everything you've typed I should bow down to as a truism and immediately throw out my own insights and theories as automatically inferior to yours for no other reason than because you wrote those five words?
You're going to need to provide a little bit more than that, and your sweeping definitive statements based solely upon your subjective opinion, to provoke such a response from me.
Daniel wrote: "pooling together our resources and mental acumen does indead create great societies... sometimes and then time passes and it stops being so great then it falls apart"
Ha! That happens precisely because we stop pooling our resources and applying our mental acumen in favor of complacency and sitting on our ass sipping sweet drinks, under the false impression that the system no longer has to be actively maintained.
Which is a big chunk of my main point in all of this.
Daniel wrote: "you seem to think that this is somehow a permanent solution"
You failed to notice the "tweaking, protecting, maintaining" aspect that I've probably typed 700 times by now...
Daniel wrote: "when I keep pointing out that the dishes need to be washed pretty much every century at least"
Hm. I think they need to be washed every fucking time we eat, with continuous oversight to make sure the delicate china remains pristine.
Daniel wrote: "...and that my point of view is that the cycle IS the system even the chaotic part..."
We need to use our mental acumen to analyze the cycles, know what is coming, how and why, determine which aspects are worth keeping and preserving, and which need to be fought against, and continuously assess our capitalistic free system and tweak it as necessary to weather the storms of the passing of the great cycles of ages. Our civilization is worth fighting for and we have the tools to win.
Daniel wrote: "it's not an insult. ideology is a form of control essentially, every time you assume there is a permanent solution to a system that is, by nature, ever-changing, you stop being conscious to the changes around you"
A permanent solution to maintaining a system in a changing cyclic world is to maintain one that is designed loose that enables a naturally changing cyclic system to function within it, like, say... for example... the capitalist economic system in a Free Market ran by free individuals within a free society. Protecting and maintaining that system so it will continue to be fluid to the natural changes around it is a permanent solution that will 100% function. The natural societal predators to that system are 1.) elitist-thinking leaders who are under the very false impression that their meddling can somehow improve that system and 2.) the greedy who seek to siphon off the wealth generated by that system for their own selfish ends.
Daniel wrote: "this is why I say it's part of the slave mentality it's part of why you seem quick to call me a communist when communism isn't even a relevant threat to anyone anywhere but you've been conditioned to fear and despise it I don't even believe or support it"
The principles of communism are well known, and composed of very specific principles... principles that you admitted made sense to you to support. I wasn't "quick" to call you a communist, when everything that makes it up you said was a good idea to you.
I understand that you reject the concept of being labeled, but you should perhaps try harder to not proclaim the acceptance of ideologies and/or their infamous principles that are both well-labeled and familiar to everyone.
Daniel wrote: "actually it's the "guard against the destruction" that leads to despotism because what YOU think is destructive and what the Tea Party thinks is destructive and what the kkk thinks is desctructive are all different things and the result is more laws and more laws eventually means the stripping away of personal freedoms resulting in exactly what you feared and then, revolution things fall apart chaos etc bad times then people get sicka dn tired of killing and just wanna be left alone they organize and create a new hierarchy"
That's not how that comes about. What leads to the despotism is ignoring the guarding against destruction aspect, allowing selfish leaders and the populace to disregard the laws that enable the society to function, which leads to ultimate chaos. Protection and maintenance of societal laws is the exact opposite of that.
Daniel wrote: "there is no perfection in stasis I'm trying to tell you that we are already IN the perfect system"
Then you have nothing to tell me, and need to study more. In a society in which the notorious Money Trust wrenched control of our government from the people to impose a diabolical debt culture that only an internal war will free us of, and you actually believe that this is now a perfect system? All the woes & pains we go through in society -- not to mention the ever present stench of racism -- and you consider this to be the perfect system?
Daniel wrote: "it just simply doesn't care about your own personal well being"
The usurped plutocracy we live in, that pretends to be what it was before 1913, needs to be forcefully returned to that time and the Federal Reserve demolished. This is a perfect example of one of the monsters getting past the guards.
Daniel wrote: "...because it's merely concerned with a continuation of the species as a whole"
The Fed certainly doesn't care about the "species as a whole" and neither do the racists on the extreme sides of the political aisle.
Daniel wrote: "the irony being that people's struggles to make it perfect are actualiy the engine that drive the creation/destruction cycle"
I disagree 100%. It's the false idea that we don't have to guard against our weaknesses that lead to the inevitable destruction.
Daniel wrote: "well, it's 1:30 am I gotta go. this was a good talk no disrespect was meant"
Forgiven. Have a good night. Peace.
Daniel wrote: "that is true but.... you still have to resolve the problem of generational momentum and the natural tendency for the young to challenge the old beliefs no matter what they happen to be"
How is that a problem separate from what was already described? Just because they are the next generation means they are allowed to break the very laws that maintain civilization? No. "Break the law and I will crush your hands with this shillelagh and you can go over there and sit your neck in the stocks while you heal and think about that fucked up thing you did." Breaking the law "just because" is not admirable; breaking it because it is fundamentally worthless and oppressive is admirable. Laws designed to keep you safe, and maintain a system that enables you to prosper if you'd like to, should be protected.
Daniel wrote: "good night"
Good night.
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