Rasheed, Muhammad. "A Mic Drop Firing Blanks.'" Cartoon. The Official Website of Cartoonist M. Rasheed 00 Date 2023 [cartoon pending]. Permanent marker w/Adobe Photoshop color.
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Tony Isabella - If bigotry is part of your "Christian faith," you're doing it wrong
Tony Isabella - I have a problem with "holy books" from any faith. They were all written by men, men more likely to be pushing their own agendas than to have been inspired by their deity. They can be useful guides for living a decent life, but they should not be worshiped.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Tony... No one is worshiping the books.
Tony Isabella - @Muhammad... I beg to differ. It's their go-to when they try to justify their vile actions.
Bob Hughes - @Muhammad... People are not supposed to "worship" the books. But depending on which denomination you find yourself mixed up in the attitude runs from "interesting" to "infallible" to "dictated word for word directly by God to King James himself." Then you add in people burning each other's books and it gets majorly bonkers really quickly.
James Babbo - @Muhammad... The entire evangelical movement preaches that the stories in the Bible are meant to be taken literally which is antithetical to the purpose of them.
Muhammad Rasheed - Tony wrote: "I beg to differ."
The religious topic is very thick and complex. Like any other field of study, it requires effort to understand it. Just because people are very passionate and even frustrated about the topic, it doesn't mean their off-the-cuff opinions are true.
Tony wrote: "It's their go-to when they try to justify their vile actions."
Yes, but people use all ideologies to twist to fit whatever agenda they are trying to push. Religion is the only one of those ideologies that people think that 'twist' is accurately reflected in the source material. This reflects a knowledge deficit underlying verbose and unchecked opinion.
Muhammad Rasheed - Bob wrote: "People are not supposed to 'worship' the books."
Worship means a very specific thing. A theist can acknowledge that the sacred scripture of their faith is very important and even crucial to their belief system without actually "worshiping" it. This may be confusing to those on the outside who believe their disapproving atheist passion against the topic gives them some form of magical insight into a complex topic they've never studied.
Bob wrote: "But depending on which denomination you find yourself mixed up in the attitude runs from 'interesting' to 'infallible' to "dictated word for word directly by God to King James himself."
People's attitudes can vary even inside of a specific sect, but that doesn't mean there isn't a difference between respectful reverence versus "worship."
Bob wrote: "Then you add in people burning each other's books and it gets majorly bonkers really quickly."
Irrelevant. People usually attack symbols that their perceived rivals & foes revere because they know it will get under their skin. For example, none of the terrorists who shot up the Charlie Hebdo Magazine offices worshiped the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) even though they were clearly very offended and pissed.
Muhammad Rasheed - James wrote: "The entire evangelical movement preaches that the stories in the Bible are meant to be taken literally which is antithetical to the purpose of them."
1.) The tales of the prophets themselves are based on true events.
2.) The purpose of sacred scripture is to both guide humankind onto the Straight Way of God and to demonstrate how to do so with the examples of the prophet-messengers.
3.) The Christians didn't start pretending that their texts were also the "literal Word of God" until they started having their epic debates with the Muslims. Here they were just mimicking the language due to esteem issues, and the clergy class had to chance tactics or risk losing their entire flock to the rising new faith.
James Babbo - 1) M.Rasheed wrote: "The tales of the prophets themselves are based on true events."
That's highly debatable. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
2) Many religious studies experts (& common sense) claim the true purpose of scripture is to provide moral & community guidelines - laws about food prep, property, judicial conflicts, etc. That's why Noah's Flood is a morality tale for example & not real.
3) Orthodox worshippers are not limited to Christians.
Muhammad Rasheed - James wrote: "1) That's highly debatable."
James wrote: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
What's "extraordinary" about ancient oral traditions later scribed into ancient texts referencing the lives of ancient peoples? How do we know about anything that happened in the past? Perhaps the comfort of your own personal lifestyle may be hinged upon the claims of the revealed scripture not being true, but what does that have to do with the science of archeology or whatever?
James wrote: "2) Many religious studies experts"
How would YOU know? 🤨
James wrote: "(& common sense)"
Your personal subjective biases against the material are magically considered "common sense" now? To whom?
James wrote: "claim the true purpose of scripture is to provide moral & community guidelines - laws about food prep, property, judicial conflicts, etc."
There is some of that in certain select Old Testament books, but they stand out as being inserted by the later scribes as being part of the old oral teachings that do not align to the greater moral religious instruction. That's why portions of the Book of Leviticus can be so jarring and out-of-place seeming.
James wrote: "That's why Noah's Flood is a morality tale for example & not real."
You're out of the loop spewing outdated material. Look up the Younger Dryas impact theory, which turned out to be the smoking gun for the Great Deluge of legend.
James wrote: "3) Orthodox worshippers are not limited to Christians."
Did I not reference Islam at least a couple of times?