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Rasheed, Muhammad. "Clues of a Carefully Hidden Opinion." Cartoon. The Official Website of Cartoonist M. Rasheed 25 Oct 2022. Permanent marker w/Adobe Photoshop color.
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Larry Young - It feels like Fat Lando here should know what happens when you lob that weak sauce into the world.
[MEME] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "European Colonial History in six words: 'Is that yours? It's mine now.'"
Dennis Wingo: "That's human history. The Bushmen would say the same thing about the Bantu, the Persian about the Egyptian, most of the world, from the viewpoint of Ghengis Khan.
"Making all history about White Europeans is diametrically opposite of your call for truth in science."
Muhammad Rasheed - I'm not a Tyson fan at all, but I noticed that he only said "European Colonial History" but this Wingo character pretended like he said "all history."
Did Wingo misunderstand or was that some kind of cowardly, weak sauce deflection?
Muhammad Rasheed - Larry wrote: "It feels like Fat Lando here should know what happens when you lob that weak sauce into the world."
I think Tyson is very aware of the classic WhatAboutism logical fallacy response that Wingo provided.
Larry Young - You of all people know what it’s like when you bring something up and people willfully miss the point to talk about what THEY want to talk about, of course. This isn’t a new thing and I’m just this side of shocked SHOCKED I SAY anybody thinks these shenanigans are worth talking about at this late date.
Muhammad Rasheed - Larry wrote: "and I’m just this side of shocked SHOCKED I SAY anybody thinks these shenanigans are worth talking about at this late date."
I'm genuinely interested in what you think has happened in the last 150 yrs (since US slavery was abolished) that would have kept these types of topics from being still relevant in 2022, especially to a Black American.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Larry... Are you one of those folk who believe we live in a "post-racial" America?
Larry Young - I'm one of those people you know who rarely writes about things that are nuanced and media-driven to the point where no one agrees on first principles.
I don't see how this ever comes up seriously if you define "post racial" America as a place where prejudice and discrimination have been eradicated or otherwise no longer exist which is obviously untrue on the face of it and "folk" who think like that are obviously deranged.
But I'm just here making fun of Neil deGrasse Junior High. I don't find social media a serious place whatsoever.
Muhammad Rasheed - Larry wrote: "I'm one of those people you know who rarely writes about things that are nuanced and media-driven to the point where no one agrees on first principles."
True, but you are also prolific enough where the hints of what you do think about certain nuanced topics can unintentionally show themselves to those who are sensitive to those topics.
One of your fans called Tyson "an insufferable sad little man" in response to a Tweet from him that's frankly comically obvious. Wingo's response was to not only WhatAboutism, but to attempt to twist Tyson's point somewhere else in the deflection. Personally, I associate such a tactic with cowardice, as Wingo is clearly afraid to address Tyson's point head-on, and would rather have an "ALL Humans Suck!" discussion instead so he can secure his fantasy that European Colonial History is at least normal if not heroic or whatever.
It seems that you all actually agree with Wingo's response in some way. This doesn't surprise me; I expect your demographic to get instantly defensive on cue over Tweets like Tyson's, but what stood out to me was when you actually 'hearted' the fan's comment.
Muhammad Rasheed - To me, that means you all are angry that Tyson said what he said, even though it is an obviously true statement -- it's not like it's controversial in nature. The rise of European Imperialism was a conquering land grab global theft effort. The point of empire building is to use military might to both conquer the weak, and keep sovereign rivals unstable so they aren't able to fight back... as you take all their stuff.
So, why is everyone mad at Tyson for saying it?
It reminds me of that Eddie Murphy bit from his Raw concert, where there's a conflict in a club between Black and white people and — without even knowing what the root cause of the conflict was — the bodyguards immediately grab the Black people and start punching them: "Didn't we let you in here?!"
lol It seems like people are mad at Tyson because he was allowed to reach certain career heights in a white-dominated world, and this comment gives the impression that he's violating some kind of "didn't we let you in our world???" type of contract. So, he's "an insufferable sad little man" for biting the hand that feeds him, right? He's supposed to cover over white historic wrongs and pretend y'all have never, ever done any wrong while he enjoys the white gifts he was given to be successful.
Is that why we're mad at him for this Tweet? lol
Larry Young - Is the reason I “like” a comment not open to a wide interpretation and only your narrow one?
I liked it because I think Tyson is a blowhard in general, and not because of this specific instance.
But people see what they want to see.
Muhammad Rasheed - Larry wrote: "Is the reason I 'like' a comment not open to a wide interpretation and only your narrow one?"
Well, I did ask before I provided my speculation. 🙂
Larry wrote: "I liked it because I think Tyson is a blowhard in general, and not because of this specific instance."
Truly, this response creates more questions than answers...
Larry wrote: "But people see what they want to see."
I have my own issues with Tyson that primarily center around the "public intellectual atheist" trope; I think those guys are @ssholes... not so much because they are atheists though, but because they are willfully ignorant atheists about the organized religion they very publicly disparage—walking around with a bag full of strawman effigies they pretend is the organized religion position—while using the prestige & power of their high-level academic credentials to give the false impression they know what they are talking about. They're equally willfully ignorant fandom are all too happy to high-five each other over every silly quip.
Neil deGrasse Tyson is definitely one of those, and I don't have anything positive for him. As I said, I'm not a fan. One thing that I did notice about him, is that whenever he showed up on Joe Rogan's podcast, there was always a tension that puzzled me. Rogan has what can only be described as an antagonistic relationship with Tyson and is always trying to "get him," or trip him up in some little, pedantic way. ALL the time. At first I assumed it was because Rogan just didn't like Tyson's style of presentation, with his penchant for spewing a string of "AMAZING FACTS!" But Bill Nye the Science Guy has the exact same style and Joe loves him, so I threw that hypothesis out. It was a mystery why Rogan didn't like him because he normally has nothing but praise & reverence for those talking-head atheist scientist guys he frequently has on the show. Other than Tyson's "AMAZING FACTS!" gimmick style, the rest of them don't say anything different than what he talks about, and they join Rogan in agreeing on many of the "why are we here" type mysteries of life.
Now I've discovered from reading your thread, that there is a general dislike for Tyson out in the greater Æther of audience land... it's not just Joe Rogan. Now the mystery deepens. This forced me to reexamine my feelings about the matter. I've seen Tyson in many of his speaking appearances over the years... do I dislike him outside of that very loud willfully ignorant atheist thing?
Not really. Other than that, I also don't care for his enthusiastically sucking off Isaac Newton whenever his name comes up in what feels uncomfortably like some kind of pagan worship ritual. I hate it, but I would think the performance would make you all accept him more; it's not like he goes around making a habit out of saying what he said in this Tweet. In general, he is pro-Eurocentric in the way y'all like from a Black American at that level of success.
Personally, I don't dislike listening to him speak, or listening to him cleverly work out a thought. His style of presentation doesn't bother me at all... in fact, I'm proud of him as a fellow Black American male who's a successful ivy league educated astrophysicist-scientist. He's recognized as one of the nation's foremost, highly-influential public intellectuals. But the mainstream dominant demographic doesn't like him much. Why?
This is perhaps where I need to legitimately play The Race Card®.
Muhammad Rasheed - I lurk over on the over-toxic 4chan/pol site to siphon off sociopathic energy to respond to in many of my anti-racism editorial cartoons (they believe I secretly post over there, too, but they wish. ew.). I'm used to the goons over there, hiding behind the cowardly shield of their anonymity, saying horrible vicious stuff about my people, the Black American former slave class. One of the things they like to say is to make fun of my people's intellect and how we have lOw eYeCuEs. It's like they get off on it.
Perhaps Tyson's presence aggravates them because he navigated the well-documented hurdles around the USA's broken and still very segregated and unequal education system to get a high-quality education despite the odds, and he has the predicted great life from it. According to the anti-Black American stereotype myths propagated by the 4chan/pol guys, what Tyson did should be impossible... if you believe the white supremacists hateful myths about us.
I wonder if the threads of this concept, perhaps subconsciously, is why Joe Rogan and many among the populace at large, don't really care for Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson? He represents what it would look like if the hurdles to full citizenship were removed and Black Americans were finally fully economically included in the competitive wealth-building ownership markets as true equals with the dominant identity group...
...we would all get to share the stage together, and share the national resources at the highest levels, TOO. Maybe Tyson, in his outlier career performance, is the very symbol of why the "post-racial" ideal is deliberately kept at bay by the group with the most to lose. They just frankly don't want an uncomfortable number of smart Black Americans walking around sharing the best the country has to offer with them.