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Rasheed, Muhammad. "Aggressive Recruiting for the Global Human Experimentation." Cartoon. The Official Website of Cartoonist M. Rasheed 06 Feb 2022. Pen & ink w/Adobe Photoshop color.
Alexander Shapiro - 3,809 people died of COVID today.
Get vaccinated. Get boosted.
Beth Wheatley - My hubby died of covid on 01 january this year, eventhough he was vaccinated of two doses, one thing he did not have is the booster as he kept on delaying it.
Alexander Shapiro - I’m so sorry, Beth.
Thank you for the reminder of the importance of boosters. I will now amend my post.
And again, I am very sorry for your loss.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Beth... Can you catch COVID if you have the boosters?
Carman Benoit - @Muhammad... yes you can have “break through” case (as this was with double vaccination). But it reduces the risk.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Carman... It reduces the risk of what?
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... it reduces the risk of being hospitalized or dying of COVID.
Carman Benoit - of catching Covid.
Even measles has a small risk of breakthrough in a vaccinated person. My generation only received 1 dose. When my kid’s school had an outbreak I went in for a booster to decrease my risk of a breakthrough case even further.
If you have the means to increase your defenses to these viruses it is wise to do so.
Muhammad Rasheed - Carman wrote: "of catching Covid."
Carman wrote: "Even measles..."
This has nothing to do with measles. The gene therapy materials are still in experimentation status as they try to get the virus under control with global human test trials.
Carman wrote: "If you have the means to increase your defenses to these viruses it is wise to do so."
That makes sense in theory, but unfortunately the experimental vaccinations do not prevent us from getting COVID at all, but like Alex said, it only reduces the risk of being hospitalized from severe symptoms.
Alexander Shapiro - but you know this. I don’t get it. Why are you playing dumb—with a woman who lost her husband?
Muhammad Rasheed - Some very definitive-sounding statements were made in this thread that gave me the impression that brand new information had come to light. Benoit's 'Like' of your question confirmed what I initially thought. I was checking in for confirmation.
No offense intended for the lady who lost a loved one.
Alexander Shapiro - “ONLY” reduces the risk of being hospitalized with severe symptoms. And “ONLY” reduces, many times, your risk of dying from COVID. That is a big “ONLY”.
And all vaccines were “experimental”: Polio, small pox, save millions and at the time were less able to be tested and researched as well as COVID vaccines are with modern methods and technologies.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "And all vaccines were 'experimental.'”
This one still is. This is not insignificant.
Carman Benoit - @Muhammad... the current most common VOC is more virulent for sure. And the vaccinations are far less efficient with omicron ( booster makes a big difference) But there are strains that are previous strains still circulating that the vaccinations do provide good immunity to. Not to mention there are likely strains not taking hold and becoming VOCs as a result. And of course taking more prophylactic steps is really important especially in the face of a more virulent strain.
But I have to echo Alexander on this. Why are you taking this fight, to the table of a grieving woman.
Alexander Shapiro - They “were” and they had to be. That’s the nature of treatments and vaccines developed under a global emergency. And they were successfully used. And saved millions of lives just like the COVID vaccines are.
Why you playing with semantics here on my page, Muhammad?
The important thing is for people to get vaccinated and boosted. Not to engage in word play that tries to discourage that.
Muhammad Rasheed - Carman wrote: "But there are strains that are previous strains still circulating that the vaccinations do provide good immunity to."
The CDC instructed the medical community to reduce the amount of reporting, which affects our knowledge of the data analysis. What we know for sure is that the experimental vaccinations do not [yet] prevent catching COVID -- which is what a "vaccine" is supposed to do. I'm thinking we should go back to calling it "experimental gene therapy" until they actually start working, but of course that's just me.
Carman wrote: "Why are you taking this fight, to the table of a grieving woman."
We're all grieving. It's a pandemic and many of us have lost close loved ones. One would think that during a pandemic the discussion would be relevant wheresoever the topic appeared.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "They 'were' and they had to be."
Well, right now those listed are all officially "vaccinations" since they actually prevent one from contracting their respective diseases. The S1 experimental gene therapy doesn't do that, so there's no real reason to keep conflating the two categories until the latter manages to upgrade its status.
Alexander wrote: "And saved millions of lives just like the COVID vaccines are."
To be clear, the experimental S1 gene therapy does NOT prevent us from catching COVID.
Alexander wrote: "Why you playing with semantics here on my page, Muhammad?"
I'm just having the discussion. Why are you being so defensive? Do you hold stock in Dr. Fauci's company?
Alexander wrote: "The important thing is for people to get vaccinated and boosted."
Presumably so that the shear bodies in the global human test trials can move forward in finally making the thing work. It should be framed in that way instead of bullying people into being experimental test subjects with lies & deceit.
Alexander wrote: "Not to engage in word play that tries to discourage that."
It seemed like the people in this thread were already committed. I was just checking in for my own understanding based on you lot's comments.
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... No. stopping infection is not what vaccines “are supposed to do”. Vaccines are meant to keep people from getting severely I’ll and dying. The flu vaccine is a perfect example.
I knew when I posted this, some anti-vaxxer , conspiracy theorist, misinformer would show up and start their bullshit, but I never in a million years thought it would be you.
Carman Benoit - @Muhammad... She lost her husband 28 days ago. I repeat 28 days ago. For real, it is beyond harsh and insensitive. Sure go ahead have these discussions somewhere if you want and are so committed to doing to it. There are lots of people out there who will gladly banter with you. But of all the people you chose to reply to, to have this “discussion”? Not even straight up to Alexanders post. You honed in on the woman deep in her fresh grief. I cannot understand why’d you think that was the most apps place to start “your discussion”.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "anti-vaxxer , conspiracy theorist, misinformer"
I'm not any of those things. As I said we've all lost love ones and I'm VERY interested in the truth around the subject and saw what seemed to be new information being passed around in the thread.
Obviously, the subject has people shook to varying levels of civility and reason when it comes to just having a dialogue about it.
Alexander Shapiro - Ok Muhammad. Let’s just add another tombstone or two here. One that says, “The Vaccine is Experimental”, and one that says, “Fauci’s Making a Profit”, better yet, how about one that says, “I won’t be bullied”-I like the irony of that one….
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "Let’s just add another tombstone or two here. One that says, 'The Vaccine is Experimental,'"
Do you now believe it isn't experimental? That's the entire point of everyone needing to get vaccinated. Did I miss a post from you?
Alexander wrote: "and one that says, 'Fauci’s Making a Profit'"
Are you offended that I quipped about his company or are you offended that he's making a profit? He's one of the patent holders. Is bringing that up a problem? Why?
Alexander wrote: "better yet, how about one that says, 'I won’t be bullied'-I like the irony of that one…."
I don't get it. What's the nature of the irony? Do you feel bullied?
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... “Civility”. Interesting coming from a man who hassles a grieving widow about her pandemic experience.
I suppose “civility” is subjective.
You’re not just having a dialogue about it. You have said several things that aren’t accurate. And you have suggested conspiracy theories about Fauci and medical authorities and government and the media being untruthful.
My guess is you’re probably not vaccinated.
Alexander Shapiro - ..no. YOU said people shouldn’t feel bullied into taking the vaccine. You’re good at quoting others. But you don’t pay attention to what you yourself said.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "No. stopping infection is not what vaccines 'are supposed to do.'"
Muhammad Rasheed - Right now I'm just interested in the reason for your over-the-top defensiveness and insults. Obviously it has nothing to do with the "grieving widow" thing since she hasn't said anything in 20+ posts -- I'm only talking to you and Benoit.
Muhammad Rasheed - So, what's your REAL problem?
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... Vaccines provide antibodies which prevent severe illness and death. They CAN provide immunity. But that is not their only purpose.
The idea here is to keep people from dying. Not scrutinizing dictionary definitions. But you don’t seem to get that.
Alexander Shapiro - She hasn’t said anything because she isn’t in the mood to debate an anti-vacxer after her husband died from Loy being boosted, Muhammad.
Not everyone has to indulge your conspiracy theories, misinformation, and instigation.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "They CAN provide immunity. But that is not their only purpose."
I just posted the formal Oxford Dictionary definition of the term which unambiguously states that it does provide immunity. Your desperate twist to make it what you want to make it is not needed or respected.
Tell me what your problem is, Alex. You're acting irrational.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "he hasn’t said anything because"
Irrelevant. After 30 posts, she wasn't a factor in the discussion at all since she wasn't participating in it.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "an anti-vacxer"
lol Are you making up a new surprise twist definition for that, too (to go along with your radical new spelling)? I'm not anti-vaccination at all.
Muhammad Rasheed - What's your problem? Did a real anti-vaxxer kill your parents when you came out of the theatre after watching Zorro?
Muhammad Rasheed - (probably)
Carman Benoit - @Muhammad... it was obvious that you left a baited question from the beginning to start a debate. I’m very conscious that the last thing I needed in any of my grieving times is someone doing that. Trying to push someone’s buttons to get them to debate while in the height of their grief is kind of picking a target you know is emotional and may respond emotionally. I figured if you were going to start an inflamed argument I wasn’t going to just leave it at her feet to navigate alone.
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... “The Oxford dictionary definition”
Is the Oxford dictionary where you get all your medical info? Or do you also watch Joe Rogan on YouTube?
I’m not irrational. Would you like me to post about a hundred links from reputable sources that show that vaccination prevents people from getting severely ill and dying and not being vaccinated results in much, much, greater chance of death? Do you want me to post a hundred links from reputable sources that confirm the effectiveness and safety of vaccines?
The idea is to stop people from dying.
Get vaccinated Muhammad. I’d hate to see you go the way if all the antivax talk show hosts, politicians, and “activists” who said the same shit you say who are now dead from COVID.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "Is the Oxford dictionary where you get all your medical info?"
Did you see the screencapture I posted? Obviously, I looked up the formal definition and posted it. Note that it directly contradicted what you claimed.
Tell me why I should accept your adorable and comically flexible definition for vaccine over the formal dictionary one. Get closer to the mic, please.
Alexander wrote: "I’m not irrational."
Do you have your own personal working definition for that, too?
Alexander wrote: "Would you like me to post [...] from reputable sources"
I'm amused that you'd assume you held any credibility whatsoever with me at this point. Are you paying attention to what you actually post? It's NOT good...
Alexander wrote: "that show that vaccination prevents people from getting severely ill and dying and not being vaccinated results in much, much, greater chance of death?"
A "vaccine" does a very specific thing that the COVID shots do not do, per the formal definition of the term. Does the COVID experimental vaccine provide immunity? No. That means, more experiments need to be done until it can get there, hopefully sooner rather than later. This is the root cause for why people like you and Benoit are pressuring people to get it done, not because it actually works yet. Being truthful is better than sloppy deceit. FYI.
Alexander wrote: "Do you want me to post a hundred links from reputable sources that confirm the effectiveness and safety of vaccines?"
Alexander wrote: "The idea is to stop people from dying."
The idea is to keep people from contracting COVID which can lead to complications that can include death. You need to work on your medical practitioner spiel.
Alexander wrote: "Get vaccinated Muhammad."
Does the COVID experimental vaccination prevent people from getting COVID? I know it's been a while since we last discussed that part. I'm trying to see something...
Alexander wrote: "I’d hate to see you go the way if all the antivax talk show hosts, politicians, and 'activists' who said the same shit you say who are now dead from COVID."
None of those folks are saying what I'm saying in this thread since you are over-the-top defensively not actually hearing me and throwing your canned rhetoric at me. Should it be my turn to be disappointed in you now?
Muhammad Rasheed - Carman wrote: "it was obvious that you left a baited question from the beginning to start a debate."
It wasn't baited at all... it was a clear Y/N question. You're the one who decided to lie in one of my follow up questions. Don't project at me for your sloppiness.
Carman wrote: "I wasn’t going to just leave it at her feet to navigate alone."
Irrelevant since Mrs. Wheatley hasn't participated in the discussion at all. The only point to continuously bringing it up is to misdirect from the far more interesting real discussion about the subject you're trying to squirm away from.
Muhammad Rasheed - Please note, you two, that Mrs. Wheatley decided not to respond to my question. That means, if you hadn't responded either, then there wouldn't have been a "debate."
Take the hint.
Carolyn Watson Dubisch - The reason we know that the vaccines work is that they are charging poor countries to get them.
Muhammad Rasheed - The patent holders and their licensees literally charged everybody to get them. If some countries couldn't afford the price Fauci & Co. demanded, then there's a 99.99999% chance they were pressured to take out a loan with the IMF or World Bank...
...and good luck to them. #yikes
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... After this final comment I will make to you, I myself am going to “take the hint” and no longer respond to your international conspiracy theories involving banks, the government, Fauci, the media, and the cover up of dangerous, ineffective experimental vaccines all for profit. You are like a veritable shit fountain of hypocrisy and anti-vaccination propaganda.
Beth Wheatley doesn’t owe you a response of any kind after your insensitive and obnoxious comments. She has been the smartest person here for ignoring you.
You complain about being insulted and then set out to insult everyone in the thread.
You’ve said your peace. You’ve got your vaccine conspiracy propaganda out there. trolling my page to do it. But it’s enough. One more comment from you in this thread and they all will be deleted. I’ve let you undermine the spirit of my post, on my own page enough.
Muhammad Rasheed - "trolling my page to do it."
Your comment was on my Newsfeed. lol
Alexander Shapiro - @Muhammad... A newsfeed that shows my personal Facebook post. You do know how all this works don’t you?
Muhammad Rasheed - @Alexander... lol Apparently you don't. When I come onto FB, I'm on the main Newsfeed where I scroll down looking at the random posts. Yours was one of those.
Alexander Shapiro - ”lol”. The last refuge of a lost argument.
Muhammad Rasheed - ("random" according to whatever algorithm magic FB uses anyway)
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "'lol.' The last refuge of a lost argument."
It also means "laugh out loud" in Internet land. lol
Alexander Shapiro - I’ll give you this, Muhammad. You certainly made a splash. I’ve been getting DMs asking me who the imbecile anti-vaxxer is.
...but like I said, “one more comment” and we’re past that now…so…
Muhammad Rasheed -
lol I'm not an "anti-vaxxer." You can let them know that.
Muhammad Rasheed - @Alexander... My favorite part was where you simply expected me to accept your made up definition of "vaccination" over the formal dictionary definition because...
Because you're a white guy saying it? I rejected your clear foolishness and apparently that's why the Left has labeled me an 'imbecile' and an 'idiot.'
I refused to blindly accept a willfully ignorant (with a mysterious agenda) white man at face value, so I'm an 'imbecile/idiot.'
Powerful stuff. And very on brand.
Muhammad Rasheed - Alexander wrote: "Beth Wheatley doesn’t owe you a response of any kind..."
I never said she did. It's actually a strawman effigy to pretend like it, too. Note that I did point out that if you and Benoit hadn't [sloppily] engaged there wouldn't have been a discussion about it with me at all.
Thanks for playing.
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